Pattern Ghost Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete There's not a pre-made form to fill in' date=' but the questions and considerations it covered are all discussed in the "Playing Comic Book Campaigns" section of the book (which includes subsections like Points & Power Levels, Creating Champions Campaigns, and Running Champions Campaigns).[/quote'] Cool, those are a good set of questions. I agree they don't need the form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Oh, the above post reminded me: What the heck is up with OMCV and DMCV? They'd make more sense as MOCV and MDCV to a new player. (And to me, for that matter.) Because when you scan the combat stats you see consistency in OCV and MOCV and DCV and MDCV. You know immediately that they are related. I think changing the acronym to something that scans better would be an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpionx1 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete not super thrilled about this. would rather have a reprint of 6E1 so that i can have a real hardcopy. reading PDFs all the time gets tiring. looks like this will never happen now. also, 'champions core' sounds like a more appropriate name for this version. 'complete' implies everything under the sun which is 6E1 + 6E2 + whatever else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pruttm Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete not super thrilled about this. Yay! We got our naysayer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete not super thrilled about this. would rather have a reprint of 6E1 so that i can have a real hardcopy. reading PDFs all the time gets tiring. looks like this will never happen now. also, 'champions core' sounds like a more appropriate name for this version. 'complete' implies everything under the sun which is 6E1 + 6E2 + whatever else. You can get 6E1 right now. Go to the Hero Store and buy it before they sell out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete not super thrilled about this. would rather have a reprint of 6E1 so that i can have a real hardcopy. reading PDFs all the time gets tiring. looks like this will never happen now. also, 'champions core' sounds like a more appropriate name for this version. 'complete' implies everything under the sun which is 6E1 + 6E2 + whatever else. I disagree. Champions Complete implies that this one book will give you everything you need to play Champions or run a Champions campaign. Other books will give you other things and add flavor, but if the GM is willing to do the heavy lifting of creating his world and his cast of NPCs this will be the only book he absolutely needs to run a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esampson Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete not super thrilled about this. would rather have a reprint of 6E1 so that i can have a real hardcopy. reading PDFs all the time gets tiring. looks like this will never happen now. also, 'champions core' sounds like a more appropriate name for this version. 'complete' implies everything under the sun which is 6E1 + 6E2 + whatever else. Just order a 6E1 with a damaged cover. The damage is typically very, very minor. In the case of the one I just ordered there was a very slight bending on the corners, the same thing you get after you've been using you book for a few weeks. "Damaged" in this case seems to be the very literal meaning of "not pristine". As for it being "complete" it actually sounds as though it is pretty darn complete. Derek says it will have all the optional rules. They are just going to reorganize some things and slim down power descriptions and the like as they did in the basic rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Oh' date=' the above post reminded me: What the heck is up with OMCV and DMCV? They'd make more sense as MOCV and MDCV to a new player. (And to me, for that matter.) Because when you scan the combat stats you see consistency in OCV and MOCV and DCV and MDCV. You know immediately that they are related. I think changing the acronym to something that scans better would be an improvement.[/quote'] Really? Mental Offensive Combat Value sounds worse to me than Offensive Mental Combat Value. Don't you know that OCV and DCV are related because the last two letters are the same? Seems to me that one should know that OMCV and DMCV are related by the fact that the last three letters are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Agree with Rod on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Really? Mental Offensive Combat Value sounds worse to me than Offensive Mental Combat Value. Don't you know that OCV and DCV are related because the last two letters are the same? Seems to me that one should know that OMCV and DMCV are related by the fact that the last three letters are the same. Nah, sounds odd to me. DCV and MDCV make more sense and scan easier on the character sheet. The core concept is "offensive (or defensive) combat value" the mental just distinguishes it from the baseline physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Agree with Rod on this one. Then you're wrong too. Neener neener neener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete OCV and DCV scan even easier with OCVM and DCVM. Let's change to those! (Kidding... They're staying OMCV and DMCV. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete OCV and DCV scan even easier with OCVM and DCVM. Let's change to those! (Kidding... They're staying OMCV and DMCV. ) I didn't really expect them to be changed, it'd be a pain at this point with regards to all the other published material already using them. But... they still suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Nah' date=' sounds odd to me. DCV and MDCV make more sense and scan easier on the character sheet. The core concept is "offensive (or defensive) combat value" the mental just distinguishes it from the baseline physical.[/quote'] I don't want people making jokes about the system. OMCV and DMCV it is. Mental Offensive Combat Value is much easier to get laughed at for. Mental Defensive Combat Value will confuse people who buy Mental Defense and aren't longtime players like us. OMCV and DMCV should stay for this reason alone. You think there aren't people out there who play Champions who are that dumb? Just because they aren't here doesn't mean they don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I don't want people making jokes about the system. OMCV and DMCV it is. What? Mental Offensive Combat Value is much easier to get laughed at for. What? Please demonstrate. I totally don't get this. Mental Defensive Combat Value will confuse people who buy Mental Defense and aren't longtime players like us. OMCV and DMCV should stay for this reason alone. That's actually a good point. You think there aren't people out there who play Champions who are that dumb? Just because they aren't here doesn't mean they don't exist. Oh, I try never to underestimate the stupidity people are capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I've some concerns but not quite sure how to word them yet. This is the direction things need to go though so my money and previous statements still stand. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I disagree. Champions Complete implies that this one book will give you everything you need to play Champions or run a Champions campaign. Other books will give you other things and add flavor' date=' but if the GM is willing to do the heavy lifting of creating his world and his cast of NPCs this will be the only book he [i']absolutely needs[/i] to run a game. "Complete" is a very subjective term. If this is truly "Complete", doesn't that imply no other book will ever be added? I would also suggest that the core rules are arguably not "Complete" because they lack the rules for ranged martial arts and the construction of martial arts maneuvers. But another interpretation would be that, if you can play the game, it is "complete". Everything else is an add-on, and the core is "complete" even if there are dozens of splatbooks adding a host of "optional" rules. Here, I think of a D&D PHB and DMG (perhaps also monster manual) - CAN you play with just these? Sure. Does anyone restrict themselves to just these for any length of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Just wondering how this might effect people who bought 6th ed Basic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Just wondering how this might effect people who bought 6th ed Basic? I'm not certain what you're asking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Yay! We got our naysayer! Naysayers say nay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Nah' date=' sounds odd to me. DCV and MDCV make more sense and scan easier on the character sheet. The core concept is "offensive (or defensive) combat value" the mental just distinguishes it from the baseline physical.[/quote'] Technically, all the way up to 5th edition your Combat Value (CV) was derived from DEX/3. It was just always split out as OCV and DCV. ECV was "Ego Combat Value" but there were plenty of instances where we'd see OECV and DECV. It then changed from "Ego Combat Value" to "Mental Combat Value". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete So does Champions Complete now count as edition 6.1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete So does Champions Complete now count as edition 6.1? I guess that's something the community will have to decide in hindsight, but I don't personally think so. I don't think the actual functional differences are that significant (to the extent that there even are any; they're mostly differences in presentation and focus). I'd certainly say it's no more than edition 6.1... probably more like 6.01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Sounds more like a rephrasing than a "version". The Basic rules are more different from the 2 volume 6e Core than it seems the rules in Champions Complete will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Sounds more like a rephrasing than a "version". The Basic rules are more different from the 2 volume 6e Core than it seems the rules in Champions Complete will be. Actually, that's a good point. The biggest "differences" in Champions Complete (the de-categorizing of Animal Handler, Gamling, et al; the removal of the Absolute Effect Rule; the removal of Classes of Minds) were all true of Hero System Basic as well. Then Basic also had many other changes/omissions compared to 6E1&2 that Champions Complete does not have. So yes... CC is much closer to 6E1&2 in function, even though it's much closer to Basic in form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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