Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[archer]

How are Donald Trump and a jack o' lantern alike?

 

They're both orange on the outside, hollow on the inside and should be thrown out the first week of November.

[Simon]

Guys...this is your semi-regular reminder to stay within the rules of this thread.  Warnings/moderation will follow.

[Lord Liaden]

As U.S. presidential election enters final days, Canada braces for the fallout

 

How immigrant voters see the 2020 election

[BoloOfEarth]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

As U.S. presidential election enters final days, Canada braces for the fallout

 

I suggest you build a wall.  And make Trump pay for it.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, BoloOfEarth said:

 

I suggest you build a wall.  And make Trump pay for it.

 

You know, Canadians have always been proud that we have the longest undefended border in the world with the United States. Folks from both countries crossed back and forth all the time. We have friends and family on both sides. Despite how Americans sometimes piss us off, we counted ourselves very lucky to have the United States as our neighbor.

 

We're not used to thinking of America this way. I know it's normal for much of the rest of the world, I guess we were spoiled. But we're very uncomfortable and unhappy with this whole situation. Those of you who feel like these past few years have changed the people you used to know, and ruined your relationships? As a nation Canada feels that way about America, and we miss the old you.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

28 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

You know, Canadians have always been proud that we have the longest undefended border in the world with the United States. Folks from both countries crossed back and forth all the time. We have friends and family on both sides. Despite how Americans sometimes piss us off, we counted ourselves very lucky to have the United States as our neighbor.

 

We're not used to thinking of America this way. I know it's normal for much of the rest of the world, I guess we were spoiled. But we're very uncomfortable and unhappy with this whole situation. Those of you who feel like these past few years have changed the people you used to know, and ruined your relationships? As a nation Canada feels that way about America, and we miss the old you.

 

We miss the old us too. Ironically enough, I think many Americans wish we more like Canada.

[BoloOfEarth]

12 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

We miss the old us too. Ironically enough, I think many Americans wish we more like Canada.

 

Quoted For Truth.  And even though I forgot to add a smiley, I hope you know that my "Build a wall" comment was in jest.  Canadians have a lot to be admired for.

 

As a Michigander who used to travel frequently into Canada, I've always considered Canada as almost an extension of the United States.  Kinda like family members who live just a town over, the ones you enjoy visiting. 

 

Now I feel like one of us stole their jewelry while visiting, and our close family in the next town over will always look at us warily.

 

It's bad enough to me that (IMO) Trump has done things that have completely trashed this country.  But it pisses me off even more to see how (again IMO) he has completely trashed our good will with other countries, the kind that takes decades to build but only a short time to destroy.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Trump maintains bank account in China, says NY Times . This story apparently derives from the Times' analysis of Donald Trump's tax returns.

 

 

By this point, anything Trump accuses someone else of doing, we should suspect he's projecting what he's doing himself.

[archer]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/10/21/dallas-county-democratic-party-says-campaign-signs-set-on-fire/

[megaplayboy]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Trump maintains bank account in China, says NY Times . This story apparently derives from the Times' analysis of Donald Trump's tax returns.

 

 

By this point, anything Trump accuses someone else of doing, we should suspect he's projecting what he's doing himself.

There's already an acronym, EAIAC(Every Accusation Is A Confession).  

[archer]

https://poll.qu.edu/pennsylvania/release-detail?ReleaseID=3680

 

Quinnipiac University Poll

 

In Texas, 69 percent of likely voters say they have cast or plan to cast their ballot at an early voting location, while 18 percent say they plan to vote in person on Election Day and 12 percent say they have voted or plan to vote by mail or absentee ballot.

 

Among those who are voting at an early voting location, 48 percent support Biden and 46 percent support Trump.

 

Among those who will vote in person on Election Day, 62 percent support Trump and 32 percent support Biden.

Among those who are voting by mail or absentee ballot, 63 percent say they support Biden and 31 percent support Trump.

====

Can someone run the numbers for me to see who's winning Texas?  

 

Just roughing the numbers through in my head, it looks like a narrow Biden win.

[archer]

US Supreme Court reinstates ban on curbside voting in Alabama reversing a court-ordered accommodation designed to protect disabled voters from exposure to the coronavirus.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/522187-supreme-court-reinstates-ban-on-curbside-voting-in-alabama

[Lord Liaden]

43 minutes ago, archer said:

Just roughing the numbers through in my head, it looks like a narrow Biden win.

 

That this is even a possibility in Texas is a condemnation of Trump.

[ScottishFox]

18 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

That this is even a possibility in Texas is a condemnation of Trump.

 

Honestly, it's more an indication of how many refugees we've accepted from California and New York.

Texas has been increasingly purple over the last several years.  I think Cruz only beat Beto O'Rourke by 3-4%.

 

Once Texas flips blue it will be Democrat everything for the foreseeable future.

[Lord Liaden]

"Refugees?" Are you sure that word means what you wanted to say?

[DShomshak]

From what I hear, "economic migrants" might be a more accurate description of the Californians. Though with the wildfires, some Californians might look at those treeless Texas plains with longing.

 

As I mentioned last year, The Economist had an interesting special report on California and Texas as contrasting models for America's future. They seemed fairly frank in pointing out the problems with either state's policies.

 

Dean Shomshak

[archer]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

"Refugees?" Are you sure that word means what you wanted to say?

 

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/refuge

 

Refuge: any place, person, action, or thing that offers or appears to offer protection, help, or relief.

 

 

So "refugee" seems to be an appropriate word for it, even though most people tend to associate the word "refugee" with people who are fleeing from war-torn countries or some such. Seeking relief from outlandish home prices and a state income tax isn't as evocative of an image but the word still applies.

 

And I've heard relocated Californians refer to themselves from time to time as "refugees". Some of them were using the term in a tongue-in-cheek manner while others were not.

[Starlord]

7 hours ago, archer said:

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/10/21/dallas-county-democratic-party-says-campaign-signs-set-on-fire/

 

This was done four years ago at the democratic party headquarters near where I live:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/30/manure-dumped-at-democratic-headquarters-in-ohio/

[archer]

57 minutes ago, Starlord said:

 

This was done four years ago at the democratic party headquarters near where I live:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/30/manure-dumped-at-democratic-headquarters-in-ohio/

 

I understand the impulse. I don't understand giving in to the impulse.

 

But for the sake of full disclosure, I live on a busy corner. And I collect and keep yard signs which people put up without on my property without asking my permission, just as I would pick up any other trash which is thrown into my yard.

[BoloOfEarth]

3 hours ago, archer said:

But for the sake of full disclosure, I live on a busy corner. And I collect and keep yard signs which people put up without on my property without asking my permission, just as I would pick up any other trash which is thrown into my yard.

 

Just be careful.  People are booby-trapping signs to punish people who pull them out.

[Lord Liaden]

10 hours ago, archer said:

 

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/refuge

 

Refuge: any place, person, action, or thing that offers or appears to offer protection, help, or relief.

 

 

So "refugee" seems to be an appropriate word for it, even though most people tend to associate the word "refugee" with people who are fleeing from war-torn countries or some such. Seeking relief from outlandish home prices and a state income tax isn't as evocative of an image but the word still applies.

 

And I've heard relocated Californians refer to themselves from time to time as "refugees". Some of them were using the term in a tongue-in-cheek manner while others were not.

 

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/refugee

 

Refugee: One who flees, especially to another country, seeking refuge from war, political oppression, religious persecution, or a natural disaster.

 

I would say there's more than enough implication in the word ScottishFox chose, that a request for clarification would be appropriate.

[megaplayboy]

12 hours ago, ScottishFox said:

 

Honestly, it's more an indication of how many refugees we've accepted from California and New York.

Texas has been increasingly purple over the last several years.  I think Cruz only beat Beto O'Rourke by 3-4%.

 

Once Texas flips blue it will be Democrat everything for the foreseeable future.

Karl Rove had an effective strategy to expand the appeal of the Republican party, but it was foiled when the base rejected the immigration reform proposals of Bush's early 2nd term.  The RNC wrote a post-mortem after Romney's defeat in 2012, advising the party what it needed to do to survive and thrive going forward.  Instead the base tripled down in 2016 and won a fluke victory.  There are a few stages of internal reform a party can go through: Superficial(changing tone, message, messenger); Moderate(altering some policies and deemphasizing the less popular policies); Major(reversing the most unpopular policies and softening other policies to broaden appeal).  I'd expect Republicans to go through these stages incrementally, by making superficial changes in 2024-2028, moderate changes in the 2030s, and major changes in the 2040s.  If they don't, they are indeed doomed in any system where you need to win a majority of the vote in order to hold and maintain power.

[archer]

Debate, first impressions about 50 minutes in.

 

Trump is on ADD medication. Unnaturally (for him) calm.

 

Biden is deliberately pulling his punches and not going for openings Trump is leaving him. Biden also is not defending himself on the fake emails...and isn't pointing out that the FBI is investigating them as a Russian intelligence operation.

 

Maybe pulling his punches is a strategy since he's ahead and doesn't want to appear too aggressive.

 

I don't understand at all why he isn't trying to forcefully deny the emails. Whether they're completely true (yeah, right) or not, the thing to do politically is to deny they're true forcefully.

 

edit:

 

Trump really making an outreach to the Latino community by saying only those refugees and illegal immigrants who have low IQ's show up for their court dates.

 

edit:

 

Trump said, "I am the least racist person in this room". A statement which would include the audience, the moderator, and his own advisors who came to the debate with him. Then Trump said it again and specifically said that he was including the audience that he was less racist than them. Note some of his own family were supposed to be in the audience but I don't know if they actually showed up.

[ScottishFox]

Easily my favorite of the debates to date.

 

Probably my favorite of the debates in the last 8 years.

 

The moderator was spectacular.  Bring her back.  For everything.  Kudos to her.

 

I kind of agree with Archer that Joe's defenses to some of the accusations were a little light. 

Just saying "Not True!" isn't going to sway people who are concerned with the recent email dust up which was recently reinforced by the testimony of Bobulinski and the junior partner in prison.

 

I think Joe's overall demeanor was more likable and I think his performance should brush away any of the dementia concerns.  He held up very well.

Easily the more likable candidate of the two.  If you're concerned about personality and presentation from the president - Joe made a good case.

 

Out of all of Trump's blathering I found his attacks along the lines of, "You were VP for 8 years and didn't do anything." or "You've been a politician for 47 years and didn't do anything." hit the mark.

Biden admitting his crime bill from 26 years ago was a mistake is particularly bad since he's had 2.5 decades to fix it and hasn't.

 

Also, I was SO impressed by the moderator.  She is awesome.

[megaplayboy]

42 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

Easily my favorite of the debates to date.

 

Probably my favorite of the debates in the last 8 years.

 

The moderator was spectacular.  Bring her back.  For everything.  Kudos to her.

 

I kind of agree with Archer that Joe's defenses to some of the accusations were a little light. 

Just saying "Not True!" isn't going to sway people who are concerned with the recent email dust up which was recently reinforced by the testimony of Bobulinski and the junior partner in prison.

 

I think Joe's overall demeanor was more likable and I think his performance should brush away any of the dementia concerns.  He held up very well.

Easily the more likable candidate of the two.  If you're concerned about personality and presentation from the president - Joe made a good case.

 

Out of all of Trump's blathering I found his attacks along the lines of, "You were VP for 8 years and didn't do anything." or "You've been a politician for 47 years and didn't do anything." hit the mark.

Biden admitting his crime bill from 26 years ago was a mistake is particularly bad since he's had 2.5 decades to fix it and hasn't.

 

Also, I was SO impressed by the moderator.  She is awesome.

One of the elements of "didn't do anything" is the assumption that the person in question had the unilateral ability to do things.  Generally speaking, with a two party system, 3 branches, 2 chambers, numerous veto points, they don't.  It also tends to be a cheap "gotcha" move when said politician obviously doesn't have time to talk about all the various incremental measures they did enact/propose/support.  

 

It amazes me that Trump doesn't get more pushback on the "I can't release my tax returns while they're under audit" bs.  First, it would be his lawyer advising him not to, not his accountant.  Second, there's literally nothing legally stopping him from releasing his returns and it's hard to see how it would affect his audit in any material fashion.