Starlord Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: If you poll female movie-goers, you might get a different determination. Also, if you poll fans of Sherlock. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Dr. Strange v. Gandalf. Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 *made new thread* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Bazza v. thread drift. Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 If I respond here then Bazza loses, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 17 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Um just for the record Ancalagon isn't "just one dragon." You saw how big Smaug was in the Hobbit movie right? He was a little exaggerated but he was pretty big... right? I won't post it here because it is huge, but check out this comparison link Ancalagon was like a mountain on wings. When he fell to the earth and died, it caused a continent-wide change in terrain. He would stand astride mountains. I don't think that graphic is canon. Tolkien liked to scale up his descriptions so they fit the form of myth. The effects of Ancalagon's fall must be viewed through that lens. It becomes impossible to imagine/accept Eärendil's defeat of Ancalagon given the size differential depicted in that image (Vingilot could fly, but it wasn't equipped with compound turbo-lasers). After all, Tolkien also wrote that Durin's Bane "broke the mountain-side" as it plunged to its death, and Balrogs are only (roughly) twice the size of a Man or Elf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 We can only go by what Tolkien said about the size and power of Angalagon the Black and he's described as standing on two mountains. Tolkien used a lot of mythical imagery and epic descriptions (like Beowulf staying underwater for hours fighting two sea serpents with his bare hands) but however you color it, Ancalagon was not "a" dragon, he was THE dragon, and a terrifying force only someone literally wielding a silmaril and of immense power could possibly fight him. The book conspicuously does not describe how he beat the dragon, but it seems that the more powerful ancestors of the great eagles were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 On the one hand, Ancalagon fit within the Pits of Angband. On the other hand, the towers of Thangorodrim are described as taller than Everest, and Ancalagon's body destroyed three of them. We can resolve this discrepancy somewhat by assuming that Ancalagon fell from orbit, and that his breath weapon was powered by a warp core, which was breached upon impact. Christopher R Taylor, Lawnmower Boy, drunkonduty and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 It wasn't just Ancalagon who spooked the host of the West, either. Morgoth let loose a whole flight of winged dragons, of whom Ancalagon was the biggest. It was the first time those things had been seen outside of Morgoth's lands, so they came as quite a shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 47 minutes ago, Old Man said: On the one hand, Ancalagon fit within the Pits of Angband. On the other hand, the towers of Thangorodrim are described as taller than Everest, and Ancalagon's body destroyed three of them. We can resolve this discrepancy somewhat by assuming that Ancalagon fell from orbit, and that his breath weapon was powered by a warp core, which was breached upon impact. Ancalagon was killed with my wave-motion gun-sword. Old Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Getting back on topic, Brie has been seen on set sporting a GNR t-shirt. One fan (not me) hoped that a scene would include a song blasting in the background. This is slash-fiction...right? ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Just to wrap up the dragon discussion , did anyone else think it was cool that Surtur's dragon used rocket-powered flight rather than wings? If they have internal fires that wouldn't be a stretch. I won't be surprised to see that turning up in some video games in future. Thor should just be grateful it wasn't a fire-breathing dragon. Particularly as he stood in front of its open mouth for an extended period while Mjolnir had it pinned. I was really expecting it to torch him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Very clever editing, but it left me dizzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Agree, and me too. Forgot to give hat tip to Dave Mattingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Quote Particularly as he stood in front of its open mouth for an extended period while Mjolnir had it pinned. I was really expecting it to torch him. I think it was really confused at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 I've watched this movie a couple more times recently, and I find myself liking it more each time. I really find myself drawn to its bright, colorful, fun energy. But I also find myself with nagging questions: 1. How did a Quinjet get to Sakkar? And how did Hulk survive the trip? The Quinjet's air supply would have run out before getting as far away as our own moon... 2. Why doesn't Thor refer to our planet as Midgard? Re: Hela vs. Galadriel Hela shrugged off the following attacks like they were nothing: 1. A spiked morningstar ball (the size of a bowling ball) to the head, swung with the strength of a renowned Asgardian warrior. 2. A spear through the chest. 3. The "mother of all lightning blasts", delivered by Thor himself. There is nothing in Tolkien's canon that suggests that an elf of any stature could have survived any of those attacks, much less all three. Moreover, since we never saw her remains, there is even a chance Hela survived the destruction of Asgard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, zslane said: Moreover, since we never saw her remains, there is even a chance Hela survived the destruction of Asgard! I'd rate that as highly likely. 1 hour ago, zslane said: How did a Quinjet get to Sakkar? Wormhole. 1 hour ago, zslane said: And how did Hulk survive the trip? Hulk SMASH logic. Ranxerox, Christopher R Taylor and BoloOfEarth 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 Are wormholes a common phenomenon inside our heliosphere in the Marvel universe? And what are the chances that one would open up right in the Quinjet's path? A million billion to one? That's the kind of handwavium that makes the MCU a bit too cartoony. I mean, I know that this movie has the light, vibrant tone of a cartoon, but that doesn't mean it has to be dumbed down like one. I also wonder if we'll ever get to learn Scrapper 142's real name (I don't buy the assumption that it's Brünnhilde). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 I've come to the conclusion that trying to apply any logic, sense, plot coherency, or reason to this film is an exercise in futility. Its like trying to figure out where Wiley E Coyote gets those signs he pulls from behind his back. Its a cartoon. This wasn't so much a Thor film, or even a comic book movie, as a comedy, a road movie in space. Yeah its full of plot holes and nonsense, but its just a goof that doesn't even try to be logical or consistent. Doc Shadow, Grailknight, Lord Liaden and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 Wormholes don't have to be a common phenomenon inside our heliosphere. They only had to happen that once. And it didn't necessarily open right in the quinjet's path -- at the end of Age of Ultron it was revealed that they lost track of it over the ocean. It could have crashed into the water, and Hulk swam until he saw a weird light hanging in space that made him curious... Hulk's very existence is an unpredictable fluke. If you can't accept a comic-book convention of something like that happening occasionally, I can see why these movies frustrate you. Armory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I've come to the conclusion that trying to apply any logic, sense, plot coherency, or reason to this film is an exercise in futility. Its like trying to figure out where Wile E Coyote gets those signs he pulls from behind his back. Its a cartoon. This wasn't so much a Thor film, or even a comic book movie, as a comedy, a road movie in space. Yeah its full of plot holes and nonsense, but its just a goof that doesn't even try to be logical or consistent. And there's that, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: Wormholes don't have to be a common phenomenon inside our heliosphere. They only had to happen that once. And it didn't necessarily open right in the quinjet's path -- at the end of Age of Ultron it was revealed that they lost track of it over the ocean. It could have crashed into the water, and Hulk swam until he saw a weird light hanging in space that made him curious... Hulk's very existence is an unpredictable fluke... Well, except that the Quinjet was grounded, completely intact (and capable of being powered-up) on Sakkar. The thing about biology is that we've seen how crazy its processes can be, and the crazy creatures it can produce in the real world. Outcomes like the Hulk feel like only a slight extrapolation to most viewers. However, wormholes are still the stuff of scientific speculation and unprovable theories; and "freak" wormholes that just happen to open up in front of a Quinjet, close enough that the craft can pass through it without taking a decade to reach it but distant enough not to be ripped apart by the energy disbursed by the tear in space-time, go beyond unlikely and straight into the category of completely implausible. I'm just saying that I would have appreciated a little more effort put into explaining how Hulk got to Sakkar. Even something as simple as one of Grandmaster's "headhunter" teams finding the Quinjet during a routine talent-scouting mission, and bringing it back to Sakkar, would have been a far superior explanation than Hulk's pantomimed "crash" on Sakkar. They wouldn't have had to show the capture on screen either; it could have been described through a line or two of dialog, just like was used for the lame non-explanation we got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 Hulk's quinjet got there because they wanted it there. They pulled the bit from the comics, but not the setup. In the Planet Hulk arc, it was a space-capable vessel that went off course and was captured. The explanation here is that they simply didn't do the same level of setup when swiping the set piece from the comics. It's not worth wracking our brains over to explain after the fact. It's just an ordinary bit of sloppy writing. And you shouldn't expect good writing from the Hulk. He doesn't even do proper grammar let alone advanced stuff like plotting. Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 Hulk got there because Sakaar is the home of all lost things. Old Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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