Superhero Bases

[Echo3Niner]

2 minutes ago, Spence said:

Wish it had happened in the personal computer age and it had been possible to get a copy  

 

If someone still has a copy; picture from a cell phone texted to you would still work pretty well...

[steriaca]

Humm...anime and manga bases.

 

Crescent Coral from Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. It is a crescent shaped artificial island where the command center (with Dr. Nambu), hanger for the God Phoenix, has a good communication and computer stations (when a supercomputer were big enough to fit many rooms). It probably also has places to make and store Bird Missiles and Super Bird Missiles. Maybe a practice studio for the Ninja part of Science Ninja. 

 

Tendo Dojo from Ranma 1/2. A place to practice the martial arts. But is actually a home. A stay at home father, a freeloading panda, a master chief, and that's about it.

 

[Spence]

6 minutes ago, Echo3Niner said:

 

If someone still has a copy; picture from a cell phone texted to you would still work pretty well...

 

True, but it has been decades and I literally have no idea where anyone could be from that time. 

Early 80's and we were all in the Navy or Marine Corps and ended up in completely different communities.  The guy that kept everything, he had a house and lived off base, was Marine helo's and went west coast.  I was Navy patrol and went east coast. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

The campaign died soon after but I gave the heroes in my Golden Age game a zeppelin base that could move around the country.  That was meant to be pretty important to the team as a mobile base and transportation to places they needed to be.  Even if it was implausibly fast, as fits the genre.

[HeroGM]

13 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Even if it was implausibly fast, as fits the genre.

 

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow....planes underwater....

 

You're excused the implausible.

[Duke Bushido]

On 2/2/2022 at 12:55 PM, Asperion said:

For the most part when it comes to bases,  I tend to hand wave it.  Regardless of size and ability,  I will say to the players prove to me why you have said ability at your income level, spending requirements, size,  and other requirements. By size I am not talking physical base size although that's a consideration, I mean the economic size of support. When everything is done and I (GM) says they have it, then we determine how to work it into the actual base itself. 

 

 

Pretty much that.

 

 

 

On 2/2/2022 at 2:13 PM, Tech said:

Using Champions 2, I've written up statistics for several of our superteam bases. All of them have a minus to PER roll to recognize them naturally, among other things. I use the Mastermind Option for the team, with each hero giving points towards the 50 pts, then the team leader's total cost is used for how many points the base has. Trust me, 300 points for a base sounds like alot, but it can go so fast.

 

 

I am delighted that Champions II has been referenced!  It includes a paragraph that sums up so much of why I don't charge for bases:

 

 

Quote

The GM can use the map of the base to think of sneaky ways for villains to enter the base. The more detail the map has, the more ways to sneak In. There's a lot of strange powers available, and villains will find many ways to penetrate the securIty of the base. Generally, automatIc securIty systems only stop heroes dropping by for tea. The characters themselves are the best defense against Intruders. 

 

 

 

Going line-by-line:

 

The purpose of a base is, apparently, to be attacked in the base.

 

I am not charging someone for the location in which they are attacked.

 

The more intricate your base, the less secure it is-- at least, that seems to be the ideal.  Never mind the points you spent for the Concealment Roll!  If your base is anything cooler than hiding under a manhole cover, villains are just going to get in and attack you.

 

The security measures for which you paid points are meaningless, and will only serve to prevent your reinforcements from arriving.

 

The best and most effective part of the base is the character team itself.

 

 

Sure: I'm sure the rules are changed and better expressed, but at the very heart of the matter is this:

 

The base is an enabler.  "using your lab in your base can give you a plus 1 to plus three bonus!"

 

When you read your skill usage rules, using _any_ skill-appropriate lab will give you that same bonus.  Heck, you can use the points you'd spend on a lab in your base to buy up Skill a point or two!  Or just use anyone's lab.  That seems to be a common theme in comics anyway, right?   Ooh-- even better!  Your badguys aren't constantly breaking into the borrowed lab!  

 

I can go on, but like four people have replied while I write this, so I'm just going to state my absolute agreement that bases are nothing but point sucks for PCs.  If you want a base-- fine.  You can have it.

 

 

 

[archer]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

My favorite "villain attacks the base" story in comics is Fantastic Four 265 when the Trapster attacks the FF tower and... gets trashed by the base's defenses and AI.

 

One of my favorites is the Mad Thinker invading the Baxter Building. His elaborate plan has ensured that the FF is gone, the building is uninhabited, and that he can turn the defenses off &, with a few minutes work, take over the building.

 

He gets inside and if I remember correctly, Thundra and a scratch group of FF allies are fighting off an invasion by Blastarr (or Annihilus?) and his minions from the Negative Zone.

 

So suddenly the Mad Thinker is in the middle of this huge pitched battle wondering what the hell happened.

[Spence]

17 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

The purpose of a base is, apparently, to be attacked in the base.

 

17 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

The more intricate your base, the less secure it is-- at least, that seems to be the ideal.  Never mind the points you spent for the Concealment Roll!  If your base is anything cooler than hiding under a manhole cover, villains are just going to get in and attack you.

 

Yes and yes

 

We had an extensive and detailed base that was the location of MANY super rollicking mega battles!

 

Yes you can look at that as a bad thing.

OR.......

 

You can embrace it and do super duper stuff!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

So suddenly the Mad Thinker is in the middle of this huge pitched battle wondering what the hell happened.

 

Yeah, that was a great one too.  Byrne's run on FF was so good.  That was everything a comic book is supposed to be.

 

And my response to the "this is why bases are a drawback too" is to say "even more reason we should work on ways to make them something tangibly and actually beneficial to pay points on."

[Scott Ruggels]

9 hours ago, steriaca said:

Also depends on if you actually have other people other than just yourself and the GM. Because of stuff it might be a very solo game.

 

At least the solo guy is lucky to have a GM. Many of us have too much time filled working and not enough time gaming. 

 Well as long as Peter Parker is having fun, go for it.

 

Interestingly, there are lots of games starting up from the Unofficial Hero Discord, there's a lot of games with around 4-8 players per game, at all sorts of time zones.

 

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Yeah, that was a great one too.  Byrne's run on FF was so good.  That was everything a comic book is supposed to be.

 

And my response to the "this is why bases are a drawback too" is to say "even more reason we should work on ways to make them something tangibly and actually beneficial to pay points on."

 

 

Which takes me to my two biggest reason that bases are free in my games:

 

If you didn't pay points for it, you don't mind when stuff happens to it for the sake of an adventure-- you are more free to enjoy the game.

 

And the biggest reason of all:

 

If you pay for the base, you are going to want to be there a lot, to use it a lot, and to incorporate it a lot.

 

I built a whole world for you and your friends.  I don't _want_ to spend every third week in your dungeon.

 

 

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 Well as long as Peter Parker is having fun, go for it.

Well, right now in the clubs is me as a player and Mark Rand as a GM trying to get a Teen Champions in Gotham City campaign going. It is definitely NOT going well, considering he has a multiple clubs where I'm the only other person, and tries desperately to create a new one thinking that this time we get a few more players and that they stay around for awhile. 

 

Clubs kinda suck for roleplaying. 

2 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 

Interestingly, there are lots of games starting up from the Unofficial Hero Discord, there's a lot of games with around 4-8 players per game, at all sorts of time zones.

Well, I'm a member of the official Hero Discord but I don't use it much. Can someone send me an invite to the unofficial one (Lady Heart is my Discord handle)?

[Spence]

2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I don't _want_ to spend every third week in your dungeon.

 

But Daaaaad!  

 

Dungeons are fun......

 

Especially mine.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

If you pay for the base, you are going to want to be there a lot, to use it a lot, and to incorporate it a lot.

 

Practically speaking that has not been my experience with any supergroup and their base (or even the fantasy hero campaign where they managed to take over a small keep and build a town around it).  People don't pay actually that much to the base, except for a place to gather or deal with the press (or lawyers).  Which is why I think it should be worked on to be more meaningful and interesting for the points.

[Duke Bushido]

16 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Practically speaking that has not been my experience with any supergroup and their base (or even the fantasy hero campaign where they managed to take over a small keep and build a town around it).  People don't pay actually that much to the base, except for a place to gather or deal with the press (or lawyers).  Which is why I think it should be worked on to be more meaningful and interesting for the points.

 

That's exactly what I _did_.

 

I made them free.  That makes them way more meaningful for the points invested.

 

The points, by the rules, is what-- it was 1 for five, originally.  I own the modern Ultimate Base book, but given that I don't bother charging for bases, I have zero intention of reading it.  Is it still 1 for 5, or is it 1 for ten now?

 

At any rate, the points invested are one-fifth divided by the number of contributors to one.  Let's say you've got seven heroes buying a base.  You are, as one contributing individual, spending 1 point to get thirty five points worth base.  What actually _is_ a better value than that?  For five actual points from each of seven characters, you get access to what?  245 points worth of base? 

 

If that minimal investment is too much- or rather, you are not getting anything significant enough to make a one-for-thirty-five exchange rate worthwhile, I respectfully suggest that you are making my point for me. 

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

If that minimal investment is too much- or rather, you are not getting anything significant enough to make a one-for-thirty-five exchange rate worthwhile, I respectfully suggest that you are making my point for me. 

 

My point was simply that if people find the point investment to not be worth it, then we should work on ways of making it worth it.    You know, constructively adding to things and making them better!

[DShomshak]

19 hours ago, Echo3Niner said:

I've been playing various RPGs so long, I haven't stat'd out a base / lair in forever.

 

PCs want a base, that affects the game?  I'd probably have them stat that out, to some extent; at least the defenses and general level of stuff, so I know they're not looking to "pull a rabbit out of a hat" at any moment, and rely on something I'm not allowing in my game (mainly just to avoid in-game arguments).

 

But for the bad guy's base?  It's all about the story - it does whatever / whenever I need it to, to make a better, more entertaining game.  It is a plot-device.

Same here. A couple Champions PC groups had bases that I wrote up, but that was just for reference. The players wanted the team to have a base; I saw ways to use the base in stories; so they got a base and defined what was in it. Everyone was happy.

 

A while back I posted the maps and writeup of Wetchley House, the base used by my Ultimate Supermage playtest campaigns. More recently, the heroes of Avant Guard made their base in a reconditioned ship (the RV Liaden --a nod to our colleague Lord Liaden, for suggesting that a derelict ship could make a good "ready-made" hero or villain base.)

 

And all that goes double for villain bases, especially Master Villains. The primal chaos-goddess Tiamat can reshape reality for kilometers around her. She don't need to scrimp on point accounting. Neither does Doctor Thame, who can program his robots to build anything he can imagine, or the mad biologist Helix who can grow a base, or... You get the idea.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Mark Rand]

Looking at Homestead in the 4E Champions book, I note that there's no basement.  Shouldn't there be one?  The first floor stairs by the family room could go down instead of up.  The second floor stairs in the same place could by a linen closet.

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, Mark Rand said:

Looking at Homestead in the 4E Champions book, I note that there's no basement.  Shouldn't there be one?  The first floor stairs by the family room could go down instead of up.  The second floor stairs in the same place could by a linen closet.

You would think Homestead has a basement, but the last time they had a basement it got invaded by the Star Shaped Mole Men. It was quickly filled in with cement after that.

[HeroGM]

One of the things I've found for making maps in general is using Google to find them for me. "Fast food restaurant floor plan", "Shopping Mall floor plan" etc...

[AlgaeNymph]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:29 PM, Sketchpad said:

Howdy Herodom!

I was working on a few things and got to thinking about bases. We see so many heroes and villains statted up, but rarely do we see the bases they use. Has anyone worked on things like the Batcave? The Fortress of Solitude? A Helicarrier? Xavier's School for the Gifted? 

To directly answer your question:

The Justice Squadron's Mansion has a section in The Ultimate Base (p.86-99), and Ravenswood Academy has a whole chapter in Teen Champions (p.44-79).  The Champions themselves sort of have their base, Homestead, described, but I recall it's "just use the generic one in the guidebook" and I don't recall anything else at the moment.

 

To expand on this thread, something I've thought about is "what sort of base would be useful for someone who doesn't need anything?"  By which I mean a do-anything power set that doesn't require lots of stuff; a mystic master, for example, but not a gadgeteer.  I'd look at the following list:

On 2/4/2022 at 11:33 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

They are a place to keep vehicles out of the public eye. 

They give a place for secret identities to be safe. 

They provide labs. 

They also are often used to hold captured bad guys, monsters, or equipment. 

Usually there's some kind of trophy room with the huge coin and the dinosaur. 

They sometimes give a spot for authorities or reporters to meet with the heroes who obviously don't have a beeper or any other way to contact them.

They often have some kind of medical facility for supers to be worked on without compromising their identity and dealing with their particular physiology.

They offer a location for monitoring news and events, so someone is at the Justice League monitor watching news and reports for something the league should deal with.

And modify it from there.

• Our do-anything doesn't need a vehicle, unless they have teammates who do.
• The do-anything may have a secret identity, but the base may be all-business with the civvie mask being anywhere else.
• Even if someone can conjure a lab you still need a place for all that stuff.  Same goes for prisoners, loot, and trophies.
• A public meeting spot is fine for bright & shiny types, but grim avengers prefer an e-mail in front of seven proxies.  And hidden servers away from the base.
• If the do-anything's too conked out to use their healing powers they're gonna need a medbay.
• Conjured AI can monitor the news but they'll have to be stored somewhere.  Or you can give a network of news junkies your e-mail if you can't just make minions.

What else could I add to that list?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well if you have a power pool it has limited points, so you might not want to spend all your points on stuff a location can do for you full time without needing to bother yourself.

[steriaca]

Street level guys might need a safehouse.  A small apartment with a cot, a microwave oven, shower, toilet, and change of clothing. And a quick way down to street level.

[Hermit]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:45 AM, Duke Bushido said:

 

That's exactly what I _did_.

 

I made them free.  That makes them way more meaningful for the points invested.

 

The points, by the rules, is what-- it was 1 for five, originally.  I own the modern Ultimate Base book, but given that I don't bother charging for bases, I have zero intention of reading it.  Is it still 1 for 5, or is it 1 for ten now?

 

At any rate, the points invested are one-fifth divided by the number of contributors to one.  Let's say you've got seven heroes buying a base.  You are, as one contributing individual, spending 1 point to get thirty five points worth base.  What actually _is_ a better value than that?  For five actual points from each of seven characters, you get access to what?  245 points worth of base? 

 

If that minimal investment is too much- or rather, you are not getting anything significant enough to make a one-for-thirty-five exchange rate worthwhile, I respectfully suggest that you are making my point for me. 

 

 

 

I love bases, but because I loved them more than my players, I tend to treat them as freebies or at least at a vast discount. I also tend to give a PRE attack bonus to the heroes at their home ground. After all, Superman can give a stirring speech, Superman standing before the Hall of justice as his backdrop ? Should be even more so. So I definitely home rule a lot of things.

 

Oh, to answer you question...According to The Ultimate Base

Gamemasters who want to make buying a Base
easier for characters should consider changing
the cost of the Perk. Instead of 1 Character Point
for 5 Character Points’ worth of Base, you could
increase the ratio to 1-for-10, or even 1-for-20.

 

which makes me feel better about being a soft touch

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

Hiya, Hermit!

 

Long time; no direct conversation! 

 

2 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

I love bases, but because I loved them more than my players, I tend to treat them as freebies or at least at a vast discount. I also tend to give a PRE attack bonus to the heroes at their home ground. After all, Superman can give a stirring speech, Superman standing before the Hall of justice as his backdrop ? Should be even more so. So I definitely home rule a lot of things.

 

Yep; I get it.  I am base ambivalent, either as a player or as a GM.  I might conceivably be considered anti-base as a GM (I don't think so, _but_...), since, while I have  no serious Pro-Base sentiments, I have one very minor Anti-base sentiment, and that is the internal struggle to avoid starting an adventure with "you are all gathered at the local tavern your base...."   

 

 

2 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

Oh, to answer you question...According to The Ultimate Base

Gamemasters who want to make buying a Base
easier for characters should consider changing
the cost of the Perk. Instead of 1 Character Point
for 5 Character Points’ worth of Base, you could
increase the ratio to 1-for-10, or even 1-for-20.

 

which makes me feel better about being a soft touch

 

 

 

Thank you, Sir!

 

I would think that this would meet the goals of this thread-- at least, the initial goal-- in terms of helping Players "get more bang for their buck" on bases.  You can increase the buck / bang density ratio two ways:  you can add more bang to a given amount of buck, or you can require fewer bucks for the same bang.  Either way, you've succeeded.

 

For what it's worth, I have yet to find enough bang to charge any bucks.  It also leaves me free to do things like state "No; you can't have all of Staten Island as your personal base."  Plus: ultimate buck / bang density!