Superhero Bases

[Spence]

36 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

since, while I have  no serious Pro-Base sentiments, I have one very minor Anti-base sentiment, and that is the internal struggle to avoid starting an adventure with "you are all gathered at the local tavern your base...." 

OK wait a minute.  

 

You do realize that the whole opening a session with the old "so you are all gathered in your bases situation room when......" is one of my favorite lazy GM reasons to have everyone have a base in the first place?  Right?

 

Keep this up and before we know it players will actually want actual adventures with actual plots.

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

        

 

I am deeply, deeply out of rep, so enjoy those, Sir.

 

 

I won't pretend to be a great GM (and let's face a harsh fact; I became GM for the reason most of us became GMs: no one else wanted to do it because "but playing a character is more fun!"  (the bastages....)

 

But I do try to go out of my way to not be sloppy or take too many shortcuts.   

 

I told a tale here many years ago of the only shortcut that I was actually really proud of, but other than that, it has either bitten me in the rear or cost me player enthusiasm every time. 

 

 

[DShomshak]

3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

For what it's worth, I have yet to find enough bang to charge any bucks.  It also leaves me free to do things like state "No; you can't have all of Staten Island as your personal base."

 

<blink> Who'd want it?

 

(Sorry, I'm told that cheap shots at Staten Island are a thing. Though it may be just a New York thing, in which case I apologize to any offended people from Staten Island.)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Duke Bushido]

No, no!

 

You did well.

 

It was clearly a set-up. 
 

[Tech]

Gotta say, I very much disagree that a having a base is so you can be attacked. That is a potential plot point but the point of a base is a place where heroes can meet together, socialize, figure out what to do about villain so-so's new master plan.

 

Btw, I became a GM because I wanted to, and still do decades later.

[Scott Ruggels]

Depending on the GM influenced how detailed the bases were, but some of us players loved designing the bases and tinkering with the maps.  Bob Simpson, as a GM had each team get their own base. One of our teams took over a Viper base after we cleaned it out (and changed the lock. It was the base from "What Rough Beast", from the Adventurer's Club.  Westguard, our original Team had a base under a mall in Mtn. View, CA.  None of our teams were without a base, but solo heroes rarely had one.  We occasionally used the city Fire Department's training area to do team exercises and rescue practice.

[Duke Bushido]

8 hours ago, Tech said:

Gotta say, I very much disagree that a having a base is so you can be attacked.

 

 

The wording has no doubt changed, and you can tell from my pricing for a base that I disagree with the rules, so I am not going to fault you for it. 

 

But that quote I put up-- that is from the very first rules set regarding bases.  It leaves little doubt that the original creators of the game-- while they didn't go so far as to flat-out state it-- seemed to think that this was going to be primary reason you'd be having a game session or two in the base.

 

WIth super powers, and a whole world outside, I can kind of see where they were coming from:  

"Do you guys want to go out and fight the good fight, felling evil where it stands, defending the weak and victimized--?  Or are we going to stay in again tonight?"       

 

Yeah, that's an oversimplification, but I don't think it's too terribly far off the mark of where they were coming from when they wrote it.

 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Tech said:

That is a potential plot point but the point of a base is a place where heroes can meet together, socialize, figure out what to do about villain so-so's new master plan.

 

Sure, but you can do that pretty much anywhere; there are endless options if you all know each other's Secret IDs.    Just as an example, the youth group currently meets up at the police station or the apartment of their police liaison.  As a bonus, the police department contains a crime lab! 

 

When they have super-science issues to deal with-- well, one of the PCs is a techno guy with his own company, and they can hand it off to him if they like, but they are also prone to go to Daniel's Industries (a creation of my original GM; he says he modeled it on some comic book super-science lab that super heroes were always in and out of.  I can't remember the name of it, but I remember it tied in somehow to a cyborg superhero (published in a comic) that he was enamored with in the 80s, as well as some other comic heroes).  Anyway, there are a couple of NPCs there that they enjoy interacting with, so they tend to head that way instead of letting their own guy do it at his private facilities.

 

So the lab thing, the hospital thing, the socializing thing---  none of it actually _needs_ a base, and for the most part, the base itself is set dressing for where those things are done.  I charge accordingly: it costs as much as the costume (set dressing) you're wearing.

 

For what it's worth, I have one player in the youth group who is pushing techno billionaire into buying an old mall.  There is a mall in Savannah that has a Bass Pro, and a massive artificial waterfall and two-story aquarium (back of the waterfall).  He's pretty sure the team needs a place that has those things. 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Tech said:

Btw, I became a GM because I wanted to, and still do decades later.

 

That makes you pretty rare, at least going by the GMs I know.

 

I learned the rules intimately because I really enjoyed the game (first thing I had really enjoyed since Traveller.  My Traveller group broke up-- a couple of military guys transferred, which left us with no rules!    and I had joined a D&D group in the meantime...  Never did like it much; the entire set-up was so screwy, and the mechanics more often than not made no sense beyond "because we say so."  (No; it had nothing to do with having to roll in a certain direction to hit someone), so I dropped out after about a year.  My first Champions GM I met by being invited to a game by his younger brother.  Really enjoyed myself, but all of this is more than you wanted to know, I am certain).

 

When Jim-- my first Champions GM-- moved off, we all took turns running arcs, but eventually I got pressured into doing it full time.  It was argued that I was better at bringing the world to life, creating NPCs that were enjoyable even when you hated them, and creating adventures.  I disagreed mightily, as I was pretty sure there were at least two other people who outclassed me in all those achievements, but in the end-- well, I wanted to play something!    So I gave in.  Most of the GMs I know ended up GMs in more or less this manner.  Even Jim!  When he moved here from California, no one else knew how to play, so.....

 

Please don't take that to mean that I don't enjoy it-- I very much _do_, but I really would like to get some time on the other side of the screen, too....

 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

 It was the base from "What Rough Beast", from the Adventurer's Club. 

 

 

I hope you did something about that radiation leak! 

[Scott Ruggels]

6 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

I hope you did something about that radiation leak! 

My Character grew tentacles, and the Speedster grew a third eye.

(Kidding)

 

Oh we emptied it out, redid the walls and conduit,  moved a relative into the house on the topside and added our own electronics.  One of the players was an IT professional (Silicon Valley in the 1990's, go fig), so we were never hacked. and rarely had intruders, but the base was basically for lab work, and communications with members of the group on patrol, so they could get back up quickly.  Different teams had differnt priorities for their bases.

 

[Tech]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:32 PM, Duke Bushido said:

I can go on, but like four people have replied while I write this, so I'm just going to state my absolute agreement that bases are nothing but point sucks for PCs.  If you want a base-- fine.  You can have it.

 

 

If someday we were to game together, I'd show just how different bases are treated in the campaign I'm in. For us, they're not useless. point blackholes or invitations for villains/agents to attack.

[archer]

I think at worst a base should be treated exactly as a power a PC purchases which isn't apparently very useful. (Example: Transform skin color to Caucasian, only works on humans who are already Caucasian.) 

 

1) It isn't the GM's job to make the base useful in any way. Instead it is the player's job to make it useful if it is going to be useful. If the player can't figure out a way to make it useful, he'll spend his points differently on the next character.

 

2) It also definitely isn't the GM's job to treat the base as if it were a disadvantage that the PC took on his character sheet but had to pay points for instead of getting additional points for.

 

Now if the PC took disadvantages on the base, fine, those disadvantages exist. But having a base doesn't cause disadvantages to spontaneously appear out of nowhere if the PC isn't doing anything to create a disadvantage or purchase a disadvantage. 

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

2 hours ago, Tech said:

 

If someday we were to game together, I'd show just how different bases are treated in the campaign I'm in. For us, they're not useless. point blackholes or invitations for villains/agents to attack.

 

 

I didn't say they were useless.  I even offered source-material accepted means to get the exact same benefits.

 

For all the talk on this board of "you get what you pay for," the defense against giving away bases for free is a bit flummoxing.

[steriaca]

My real life base is a combo bedroom/kitchen/living room, two closets and a bathroom. It costs me $550 per month + electricity. It is situated on the second floor on top of a garage space/storage space (which I don't use). I doubt it would cost me more than a single character point. It is within walking distance to my work, and to Downtown West Alise, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I'm also in walking distance to Miller Park Way, West Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 

 

I mention this because, well, have you looked on your character sheet? Have you payed character points for your base? Mine cost money, and is not listed on my sheet. 

[Hermit]

23 hours ago, steriaca said:

My real life base is a combo bedroom/kitchen/living room, two closets and a bathroom. It costs me $550 per month + electricity. It is situated on the second floor on top of a garage space/storage space (which I don't use). I doubt it would cost me more than a single character point. It is within walking distance to my work, and to Downtown West Alise, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I'm also in walking distance to Miller Park Way, West Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 

 

I mention this because, well, have you looked on your character sheet? Have you payed character points for your base? Mine cost money, and is not listed on my sheet. 

Oh, you're built on Heroic rules instead of super heroic rules. I bet you pay for your HKA (ie Kitchen knife) with money too. *Scoff*

 

;)

[dmjalund]

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

Oh, you're built on Heroic rules instead of super heroic rules. I bet you pay for your HKA (ie Kitchen knife) with money too. *Scoff*

 

no. i steal them from the crime scene

[Hermit]

If I might suggest something that might inspire ?

 

Two story home... the lower floor is under water

[DShomshak]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:09 AM, Hermit said:

If I might suggest something that might inspire ?

 

Two story home... the lower floor is under water

A very  immersive experience... especially if the lower floor springs a leak. 😀

 

But it includes plans! Extra-useful.

 

Dean Shomshak

[death tribble]

I was wondering if anyone had mentioned the Ultimate Base book. Good.

 

The idea I had for one villain is that they had the Scharnhorst in orbit.

[Spence]

Well, in the end I like bases and do not consider then a waste of points. 

 

Both as a players and as a GM for my villains. 

 

Every true villain worth their salt has a secret base......

[Duke Bushido]

Star Labs!

 

That's the name of the organization I was trying to remember!

 

Just watched a Flash rerun and it was mentioned there.

 

Apparently superheroes just walk in and out of it all the time.

[steriaca]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:09 PM, Hermit said:

If I might suggest something that might inspire ?

 

Two story home... the lower floor is under water

Unless the hero can breathe underwater or just plain doesn't need to breathe, it might be problematic. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Tony Stark had a base in his movies (was the center of parts of several of the films, including being largely destroyed because for some reason a defense contractor had zero air defense) and he built several Avengers bases.  Ant Man, they had a base of sorts in Pym's lab/house.  Dr Strange has his Greenich village base/house, and the Sorcerer supreme had a school/base.  I mean, the concept is hardly alien even in the movie versions.

[Asperion]

33 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Tony Stark had a base in his movies (was the center of parts of several of the films, including being largely destroyed because for some reason a defense contractor had zero air defense) and he built several Avengers bases.  Ant Man, they had a base of sorts in Pym's lab/house.  Dr Strange has his Greenich village base/house, and the Sorcerer supreme had a school/base.  I mean, the concept is hardly alien even in the movie versions.

 

It seemed as though those bases never had any form of defense, internal or external.  That should be one of the first and most important considerations especially for a place that someone expects to be attacked frequently so that the people inside are not getting called away for every two bit invader.  The type and location of such security will depend upon the purpose it's supposed to serve.  Most people use recording equipment only since they only want deterrence.  However,  groups like the Avengers might have more aggressive security to force the invaders away. This could include both lethal and nonlethal weapons for truly dangerous foes.

[DShomshak]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Tony Stark had a base in his movies (was the center of parts of several of the films, including being largely destroyed because for some reason a defense contractor had zero air defense) and he built several Avengers bases.  Ant Man, they had a base of sorts in Pym's lab/house.  Dr Strange has his Greenich village base/house, and the Sorcerer supreme had a school/base.  I mean, the concept is hardly alien even in the movie versions.

Heh, there were a few comic books in which we got to see the defenses of Dr. Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum. Including one early issue in which the plot was that Doc had to rescue the dumb-ass who tried to burgle his house. (Safety tip: If you break into a weird spooky house and see a big purple jewel under a bell jar, do not pick up the jewel. <insert "The More You Know" logo>)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Duke Bushido]

Two things:

 

1) I am not against bases.  I am against charging for them, seeing as how they offer little that isn't available to a superhero via some other method (Spideman using the lab at college or at some internship; superheores using Star Labs or working with local agencies, etc).  The value added versus the points spent just isn't there.  If you want a base, fine; have a base.

 

2) the last several examples from the source material seem to support the idea that a base is both set dressing for where the story takes place _and_ attacked with some regularity.

 

Also, I dont think it's odd that a defense contractor have no 'air defense" at his headquarters / lab / base.  I am pretty sure some meals villain could drop a bomb on Lockheed Martin and then head to Northrup Grumman and attack there as well before got something in thw air to take them down.  They build the weapons /planes /whatever, but don't necessarily have a stockpile of then laying around, primed and ready to go.

 

Theur biggest defense agaisnt that is "who is going to dly ovwr American soil and attack a military defense contractor?"  Similarly, I expect Stark's defense was identical, with the addition of "who is also Iron Man?"

 

Turns out that some whacko with lots of resources and a personal grudge will do that very thing.

 

[Tech]

On 3/6/2022 at 1:55 PM, Spence said:

Well, in the end I like bases and do not consider then a waste of points. 

 

Both as a players and as a GM for my villains. 

 

Every true villain worth their salt has a secret base......

Agreed.  I've made up 3 bases stats and found pictures for the bases. Players love it.

 

Viper tried their base-buster weapon on our heros HQ... it broke alot of windows and cracked a wall but that's it. Ah, it was worth seeing all the Viper agents just standing there with jaws open, motionless, to see their most powerful weapon hardly do anything... then the heroes retaliated...