Is Hero still your "go-to" rpg system?

[Ninja-Bear]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:08 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

Really? Please explain. 

I had thought that the new players were all about 5e, and Critical roll. Where are they finding these OSR rules?

Well there is this new fandagled thing called the internet. I wouldn’t say the majority of players are OSR but a there is a share it seems of OSR players from 5e

[Scott Ruggels]

1 hour ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Well there is this new fandagled thing called the internet. I wouldn’t say the majority of players are OSR but a there is a share it seems of OSR players from 5e

So it’s not old players returning to their roots, but new players chased away from 5e?  
I have noticed a down turn in the number of mentions that Pathfinder lately. 

[Ninja-Bear]

1 minute ago, Scott Ruggels said:

So it’s not old players returning to their roots, but new players chased away from 5e?  
I have noticed a down turn in the number of mentions that Pathfinder lately. 

Hard to say how much really but it does seem a bit of both.  What I’ve seen of new to OSR is that they still find it easier than 5e and some don’t like how powerful you start out compared to OSR. It seems that some just want to experience the “Old School”.  If you see the cost entry for some of the OSR , its easy for people to tip their toes in the waters.

[Ninja-Bear]

 

https://youtu.be/wRVJNkOObIU

 

link about OSRp

 

[tkdguy]

More like OSR was a reaction to 3e, or rather its players. A lot of AD&D players didn't like the new game, and many fans of the d20 system flamed them on the official D&D boards. That led to forums like Dragonsfoot being established. The OGL made it legal to produce material, which led to the publication of the various retro-clones out on the market.

 

To be fair, edition wars existed before 3e. When I switched to 2nd Edition, I had to endure all the snarky comments from my 1st edition group. I remember reading the forum section in an issue of Dragon Magazine where one Basic D&D fan called all AD&D players "weenies and bedwetters." But these were mostly localized and between friends. 3e came around after the internet was born, and the flame wars grew out of proportion.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

As I primarily play games with superhumans...I still use HERO (6th now).

[DreadDomain]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:25 AM, fdw3773 said:

While updating various files in preparation for the upcoming Extra Life charity game event along with some conversations with people I know in the local rpg community, I realized that Hero System is no longer my "go-to" game of choice for superhero and fantasy as it was back when I was in high school and college. Since I now run sessions at local game events where players arrive and use a pregenerated character, player interest has leaned more towards rules light systems like ICONS that are easy to understand and pick up upon arrival. I haven't ran Fantasy AGE yet, but after some brief conversations with a few who are either new to RPGs or have played D&D, the impression I got from them was that Fantasy AGE was preferable over Fantasy Hero.

 

Does anyone else find themselves in the same situation? Or is Hero still your "go-to" rpg system? 🤔

Sadly, the answer has to be no. I only came to realize it a few months ago while answering "What are the Top 10 Tabletop Roleplaying Games of All Time (that you have personally played)?" on RPG.net. I instinctively started asking myself who would rank first, HERO or GURPS but when I went through the though process, the real question was if it would even finish second (it did) or would it slip to third.

 

No doubt I still love HERO but nowadays, if I want to play fantasy, modern action, supernatural horror, post-apocalypse, science-fiction, etc, I will probably consider one, two or half a dozen games before HERO. In the past many years, it was my go-to only when it comes to super but If I was to start a game now, I am not even sure I would choose it.

 

It also pains me to say that the last book published by HERO that I enjoyed and found "professionally" done was Golden Age Champions, must have been 5 years ago now.

 

If DOJ doesn't pick up their game, or sell the property to someone who will do the system justice, I am afraid the next time I answer a similar question in a few years, it may slip to third or maybe not even make the top 3.  

[Vondy]

I'm not an edition warrior.

 

I run 5e, but have a bunch of 6e and 4e stuff, and mix and match from all three. 

 

Hero is my go to system, but my group has been pretty 5e D&D focused.

 

Its only recently that they suddenly perked up and asked about me running Champions again.

 

Everyone is super-stoked.

[Ninja-Bear]

I just the bug to write up some fantasy characters would be ready to go at a pinch and just like that -I lost it again. Even using FHC which has suggestions for Race, professions and background, as I started to throw numbers around, it drained me like a wraith.  

[HeroGM]

Yes, 80% of what I play is Hero, even Fantasy. The other is games made specifically for something like Buffy, Star Trek, etc.

[Sketchpad]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:16 AM, DreadDomain said:

Sadly, the answer has to be no. I only came to realize it a few months ago while answering "What are the Top 10 Tabletop Roleplaying Games of All Time (that you have personally played)?" on RPG.net. I instinctively started asking myself who would rank first, HERO or GURPS but when I went through the though process, the real question was if it would even finish second (it did) or would it slip to third.

 

No doubt I still love HERO but nowadays, if I want to play fantasy, modern action, supernatural horror, post-apocalypse, science-fiction, etc, I will probably consider one, two or half a dozen games before HERO. In the past many years, it was my go-to only when it comes to super but If I was to start a game now, I am not even sure I would choose it.

 

It also pains me to say that the last book published by HERO that I enjoyed and found "professionally" done was Golden Age Champions, must have been 5 years ago now.

 

If DOJ doesn't pick up their game, or sell the property to someone who will do the system justice, I am afraid the next time I answer a similar question in a few years, it may slip to third or maybe not even make the top 3.  

 

I'm not far from DD here. I've always been a big HERO fan, particularly Champions, but the game needs... something. I've gone over what I think it needs in at least three or four threads, so I'm not going to go into that. But the big thing that it needs is some publicity and some kind of "It Factor" that makes people want to carry it in stores. I remember back in the day when Champions was in almost every game and comic shop that I went to. Now, shops that remember it think it's dead, and new stores have no idea what it is (and are less likely to run demos based on that). 

 

These days, I mainly play some Mutants & Masterminds, AGE, and 2d20... but I always long for running HERO again someday. 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

As I noted in another thread, a visit to the friendly local game shop revealed that RPGs and accessories are tucked off into a corner -- D&D included -- and the rest of the store is board and card games.  Its just not a booming market sector any longer, its not popular as a passtime.  

[Ninja-Bear]

@Sketchpad, I remember when Fifth came out and I went to the local comic/game store and they were surprised that someone was interested in it. They had big chunk of the line at the on the shelves. I got the impression though that they were disappointed in the line cause I was the only one who bought any thing. It could be that it wasn’t big up in that area too. 

[Vondy]

On 9/14/2022 at 10:08 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

@Sketchpad, I remember when Fifth came out and I went to the local comic/game store and they were surprised that someone was interested in it. They had big chunk of the line at the on the shelves. I got the impression though that they were disappointed in the line cause I was the only one who bought any thing. It could be that it wasn’t big up in that area too. 

 

This may also be partly the nature of the product and how people shop for it rather than "market share."

Board games seem to remain a "browse and talk to employees" at the brick-and-mortar item. Big boxes and lots of parts.

RPGs, which are primarily book-driven, seem to have become, primarily, a "buy it online" item. Slide it into a reinforced envelope.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I wish I could run a game at the local store, I think that would help generate interest and sales.  Definitely I would encourage others to do so if possible.  Run games at cons, at game shops, etc.  The hobby needs life injected into it, and not just stunt celebrities playing on youtube.

[Scott Ruggels]

The Pandemic eliminated the local game stores, save one, maybe, but I haven't been able to get over there.

However I do plan to run "Champions Begins", for one of the Discord Servers I am on, and probably another as I had a request. I will do my best, even though Superheroes aren't my first choice for Hero System. I will report on how it went later.

 

[Sketchpad]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:21 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

As I noted in another thread, a visit to the friendly local game shop revealed that RPGs and accessories are tucked off into a corner -- D&D included -- and the rest of the store is board and card games.  Its just not a booming market sector any longer, its not popular as a passtime.  

 

On 9/14/2022 at 1:08 PM, Ninja-Bear said:

@Sketchpad, I remember when Fifth came out and I went to the local comic/game store and they were surprised that someone was interested in it. They had big chunk of the line at the on the shelves. I got the impression though that they were disappointed in the line cause I was the only one who bought any thing. It could be that it wasn’t big up in that area too. 

 

Yeah, I don't think it's because of a declining market, to be honest. With three dedicated game stores and a comic shop in town, there's enough RPG stuff floating around. The latter of those shops was the last to carry any Hero products (back in the 4th ed days), with the other three just not knowing what the system is. I work in marketing in my Secret ID (15pts) and I just don't see the game marketed in ways that would attract new people. Back in the day, having products like game magazines helped with ad space and such. These days, there are less and less such products, and advertising has moved to a digital format: videos, social media ads, floating ads on websites, and "influencer" endorsement. I've gone over what I believe the game needs in a few other threads, so I won't repeat them here. But the game needs something. And it needs to have a reason to be on the shelf at stores to gain new blood. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Vondy said:

 

This may also be partly the nature of the product and how people shop for it rather than "market share."

Board games seem to remain a "browse and talk to employees" at the brick-and-mortar item. Big boxes and lots of parts.

RPGs, which are primarily book-driven, seem to have become, primarily, a "buy it online" item. Slide it into a reinforced envelope.

 

I agree to an extent. The "browse and talk" method still exists in the stores I've gone to, and something I often engage in when at a new brick-n-mortar store. 

[Red Panther]

I'm coming back to HERO after about a 7 to 10 yr hiatus, so I * want* it to be my go-to. I can't even remember why I took a break from it. I don't think it was a conscious decision, I think I just kinda slowly drifted away as I explored other rpgs. I got pretty heavy into the more narrative style systems for a while there (FATE, Cortex, etc.) as well as Savage Worlds and other "universal/generic" systems. Ultimately though, I found my bookshelves groaning under the weight of all these different books and found myself struggling to learn and memorize all these different systems to do all these different things with and that's what brought me back to Hero. I still enjoy those other games... in theory, anyway. But at the end of the day I just don't have the time or the inclination anymore to master multiple systems. Hero is an excellent "one stop shop" for pretty much anything I could think of. 

 

Unfortunately, as with many others, finding people to play is proving challenging. I currently live in Omaha, NE and you might be surprised to hear that there's quite a large "nerdy" community here. We have a couple different cons each year (gaming, anime, etc) and several gaming stores (at least 5 different stores that I know of, with 3 of those having two locations). However, finding people to play anything other than D&D 5e is tough. I mean, there are a handful of people who offer other games from time to time, but 5e is the big draw for some reason. Which is fine, of course. It's nice to see this flood of new people getting into the role playing hobby and I'm sure that, in time, many of them will branch out into other games just as we all did back in the day. 

 

I'm going to try running a few demos in the near future once I get my collection built back up. I've been kicking around a couple different ideas that would showcase Hero's strengths in different ways. An X-Files type game where the players are FBI agents contending with conspiracies, weird mutants, psychics, and aliens, etc. A Star Wars game set during the end of the Clone Wars/beginning of the Rebellion era where the players are all Jedi on the run from Imperial Inquisitors. That kind of thing. 

 

And for what it's worth, I think the free Champions Begins download is a great start. I think they should release one for Fantasy and Sci-Fi, as well, and include a bunch of "generic" antagonist stats to show how flexible the system is. For example, here's a generic "Imperial storm soldier", for when you need a space fascist shock trooper. Here's a fierce "K'lang-in warrior" for when you need a space zen viking. Things like that. 

 

I also think that if they're going to bring Hero back and release a 7th edition, they're going to need to jazz it up a bit to match modern production values. I would include a code on the inside cover similar to what Cortex Prime or Vampire the Masquerade 5e are doing that will get you a free pdf of the game, regardless of where you buy the physical copy from. Maybe have that free pdf be a bundle of sorts that includes a bunch of example templates/powers/antagonists/whatever for different genres to help get people kickstarted. Things like generic orcs, goblins, dragons, eye-tentacle-monster, etc. for fantasty. Space fascists and space vikings and "alphabet starfighters" for sci-fi. Men in black, some freaky mutants and more tentacle monsters for modern day (or 1920s) horror. Stuff like that. 

 

I also wonder if maybe a boxed "starter set" might be worthwhile for Hero, since starter sets are kind of a popular thing these days. D&D, Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek, all have them and they seem to be popular. 

 

So yeah, Hero is still my go-to. Or at least I want it to be. For me, there's just nothing else out there that has the flexibility and inter-changeability that can match it. 

[Duke Bushido]

On 9/18/2022 at 12:38 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

I wish I could run a game at the local store, 

 

 

I am with you there, Sir.  Alas, my,most "local" store is two hours one-way, and I would have to tear gas the Magik and Pokemon guys to clear out some seats. (Does that stuff come in alternate fragrances?  Might as try to make the place smell less like "no one in here has bathed more recently than two weeks ago.")

 

Honestly, I don't know how you can have that much Dorito'a dust on your fingers and staining your beard and not have orange cards 😕

 

To the question:  yes; HERO is still one of my two drugs of choice.  Primarily 2e, with a tiny smattering of things pulled from 4e.  We pulled in a few things from 5e that we thought we would like (mostly modifiers), but eventually decided that we didn't need or want them, so while they are still on the table, so to speak, we haven't found any real utility to them.

 

We didn't find any of the "new" stuff in 6e interesting enough to try at all.

 

In all fairness to Steve, after watching that youtube cast (thanks to the outstanding human being who put up the youtube link), I think I may have been right in my earlier claims that the bulk of the last two editions "new stuff" was little more than addressing or codifying corner cases and edge items that just aren't likely to come up for most people.  Based on comments Steve made in that video, I suspect this really was the case (the "file of questions from over the years," etc).

 

As we have been playing since 1e, we have adresswd pretty much any edge case that we were likely to have encountered long before the rules did, and we just havent had that many.  Yes; I have just as much fun as everyone else picking at things that _could_ cause an issue, or noting how _this_ might interfere with _that_, but it is like getting killed by a tiger:

I _could_ get mauled to death by a tiger.  If I encounter a wild and hungry tiger, I probably _will_ get killed by a tiger.

 

Since I live in central Georgia, USA, in spite of all the potential to lose my life in a Duke / tiger encounter, I can one-hundred percent say that I am most certainly _not_ going to get killed by a tiger, and don't really need to invest much time or money preparing for that.  In fact, I have made it to the ripe old age of 62 with absolutely _no_ preparations for tiger attack, and- as I suspect is the case for all but possibly one HERO player out there, I will never be in a position to regret not,being better prepared for random,tiger attacks.

 

 

anyway:  Champions 2e is one of my two systems of choice, tied quite nicely with Classic Traveller (as much as I love my LBBs, my players tend to prefer the 3e Traveller Book for its slightly simplified combat and range bands and ship movement, so that is the one we use the most.)

 

Now realistically, we play way more games built on Champions, but that is because most of my players prefer the reduced lethality of that system, and even those with no preference have more experience with Champions.  (Oddly enough, we dont play a lot of superheroes).

[MrAgdesh]

It’s still my go to for the vast majority of campaign ideas; especially Fantasy, Space Opera, Swashbuckling, and of course, Supers. 
 

I’m currently running Aces & Eights Reloaded and Delta Green. I find that for these niches (realistic Western and conspiratorial cosmic horror) that those systems work just fine. 
 

[fdw3773]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:40 AM, Ninja-Bear said:

@fdw3773, If I understand correctly, ICONs is a derivative of the old Marvel System. Do you find that you need to house rule anything?

 

@oldmanthere is an article from Dragon Magazine which you can find under Classic Marvel RPG website on how to make it a point buy system inspired by Champions.  

The main house rule I used was that players rolled two dice instead of one and I took the higher of the two to determine success or failure and did the same for villains. My own internal rule was the villains I created did not have Determination points.

 

[Sketchpad]

21 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

The main house rule I used was that players rolled two dice instead of one and I took the higher of the two to determine success or failure and did the same for villains. My own internal rule was the villains I created did not have Determination points.

 

 

The few games that I've ran, I've used Fate Dice, since Icons is partially built from the Fate System as well as the old MSH. 

[DentArthurDent]

My gaming group converted everything into the Hero system.

We would play the original rules for two or three sessions, get frustrated at the lack of rules, and convert it.

We played spies, cowboys, pulp, Cthulhu, pirates, Klingons, Star Trek, Star Wars, Middle Earth, Twilight 2000, … using Hero rules.

 

[Beast]

Yes

[Ninja-Bear]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:18 PM, DentArthurDent said:

My gaming group converted everything into the Hero system.

We would play the original rules for two or three sessions, get frustrated at the lack of rules, and convert it.

We played spies, cowboys, pulp, Cthulhu, pirates, Klingons, Star Trek, Star Wars, Middle Earth, Twilight 2000, … using Hero rules.

 

That’s great! However I sometime see other rule sets and they’ll have a rule or two that can’t be replicated too easily. Ever come across such a thing?