What Have You Watched Recently?

[zslane]

Yeah, I remember a standout DS9 episode (end of season 1, I think?) that turned out to be a total fake-out and completely discarded what I thought was a fantastic premise (the Federation turning heel and allying with the Dominion). That proved to me that Berman and Piller had no intention whatsoever of being innovative and ground-breaking with the franchise, and instead preferred to play it safe (and boring) as usual. Babylon 5, on the other hand, followed a far more ambitious creative vision and was superior for it, even if it stumbled here and there in the execution. If B5 had been a high-budget streaming series, I think it would have become more iconic and less of a niche cult classic. Interestingly, that is exactly what it sounds like is happening with it now.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Asperion said:

 

I believe B5 is better.  DS9 attempted to do the same thing but had the restrictions of the ultra good Federation that restricted most of the things that they really should have done.  B5 however,  only had the restrictions of Starzenki (sp) and the budget.  As a result,  they were more free to do what was needed to get the job done. In DS9, everyone knows who is on what side, where the enemy is, and what they are up to.  In B5, while one can attempt to make this comment,  the enemy frequently appears from nowhere,  attacks suddenly,  disappeared before your readied fighters respond,  and can be the being right next to you. 

 

I think we are having two different conversations.

 

You seem to be basing them on story type, bright hopeful versus grim dark.  I am talking about the quality of the show within its premise. 

 

The high quality of the episode "In the Pale Moonlight" is directly tied to the overall standard of Federation ethics and morality.  The ethical dilemma and Siskos internal struggle simply wouldn’t have been so powerful if the same thing had happened in a show that was not Star Trek.  The episodes where the characters struggled with the conduct expected in the Federation meeting the rest of reality head on is what makes Star Trek, Star Trek.  One of the reasons I liked DS9 better than the other series is in all the other Treks they could just Righteously fly away at the end of the episode.  In DS9 they had to try and actually resolve things because they weren’t going away.  The failures were as interesting as the successes. 

 

Now B5 has to be viewed through a different lens.      Their morality and ethics are more “realistic” and many characters on either side are more than willing to do what ever it took.  For me B5’s shinning achievement was the level of character development and simply well-crafted storytelling.   

 

That said, I have a hard time choosing between them because they both have spectacular episodes as well as garbage episodes.   

 

I try, not always successfully , to judge shows, books and RPG’s within their context.  

 

I try, the struggle is real

[Spence]

12 minutes ago, zslane said:

Yeah, I remember a standout DS9 episode (end of season 1, I think?) that turned out to be a total fake-out and completely discarded what I thought was a fantastic premise (the Federation turning heel and allying with the Dominion). That proved to me that Berman and Piller had no intention whatsoever of being innovative and ground-breaking with the franchise, and instead preferred to play it safe (and boring) as usual. Babylon 5, on the other hand, followed a far more ambitious creative vision and was superior for it, even if it stumbled here and there in the execution. If B5 had been a high-budget streaming series, I think it would have become more iconic and less of a niche cult classic. Interestingly, that is exactly what it sounds like is happening with it now.

 

I get your viewpoint and actually believe that when B&P green lighted a new show and focused on the new hotness the old, now ignored, series had their best episodes. 

 

But do disagree on the overall take. 

Having the Fed join the Dom wouldn't have been daring at all.  It would have been lazy and boring, not to forget a major departure of the basic theme of the franchise.  It would have been like the US joining Japan after Pearl Harbor.  

 

For me the best stories are the ones that took the hard road.  It is why RPG campaigns based on Hero's doing good tend to last far longer than ones based around self centered murder hobo's. 

Morality and ethics force "good" characters to take risks which lead to awesome climactic adventures.

Evil on the other hand can just quit when it looks like it may get dangerous.

 

One of the reasons shows are cratering in the last few years and we find ourselves turning back to the 80's and 90's for something to watch is the utter lack of creativity. 

Grim Dark - check

Conspiracy - check

Inner Circle Betrayer - check

rinse, repeat

 

La Brea initially looked good, but I quickly lost interest when it started slathering on the "dark secrets" Lost vibe.  I am really dancing around watching Amazon's Wheel of Time.  I'd love another great series, but I fear that it will be another book destroyed by hollywood hacks "fixing" it.  I'll admit I am not the greatest fan of the books, but I hope this time they actually read them first. 

 

[zslane]

14 minutes ago, Spence said:

Having the Fed join the Dom wouldn't have been daring at all.  It would have been lazy and boring, not to forget a major departure of the basic theme of the franchise. 

 

I agree that it would have made DS9 feel like a very different kind of Star Trek show. For a bit. But I feel that is what the franchise needed. It had so thoroughly departed from most of the things that made the original series so great (in my eyes) that it sorely needed an overhaul from the pabulum that was Next Generation. Shows like Star Trek Discovery are what you get when you are desperate enough to dare to take the franchise in a different direction, but have no clue how to do it. A season of DS9 where a misguided faction within the Federation forged an alliance with the Dominion, only to find out how horrible that decision was and then had fight to reverse the consequences of that decision (with the help of Our Heroes, of course) would have been gripping to watch, at least for me. It would have been kinda like taking the OS "Mirror, Mirror" episode (which is a fan favorite, and for good reason) and extending into a season-long story arc.

 

You talk about departures from basic themes as if that is universally bad or necessarily permanent. The 2004 Battlestar Galactica series was quite different in tone and themes from the original, but was arguably superior to it in nearly every way thanks to those differences. DS9 was presented as the "darker Star Trek" series pretty much from the first episode, and by the end of the first season, I think audiences were ready for some new ideas, new themes, and a journey though darkness that would make the re-emergence into the light that much more satisfying. In the hands of the right people, the creative potential of the "evil Federation" scenario could have been gloriously realized, while in the hands of Berman, Piller, and everyone who thinks just like them, those ideas are viewed as wrong-minded and antithetical to Star Trek.

[Spence]

 

 

15 minutes ago, zslane said:

A season of DS9 where a misguided faction within the Federation forged an alliance with the Dominion, only to find out how horrible that decision was and then had fight to reverse the consequences of that decision (with the help of Our Heroes, of course) would have been gripping to watch, at least for me.

 

OK, now that would have been interesting.  I misread your intent. 

15 minutes ago, zslane said:

You talk about departures from basic themes as if that is universally bad or necessarily permanent.

 

Not universally bad as your Battlestar example shows.  But it is a bad thing that hollywood has already forcibly converted practically every drama into Grim Dark Conspiracy already. 

 

Taking a show and crafting another take on it can be good.  And I really liked some of them. 

But today in the late 2019's and now the 2020's hollywood has decreed well crafted plots shall be forbidden and all must be Grim Grim Dark with Grim Dark Conspiracy.

 

I am not talking about the departures possibly being bad, I am definitely saying that the hard hard turn into "all shows being the same" grim grim dark conspiracy definitely is bad. 

[Pariah]

I feel like the first season of Star Trek: Discovery was largely grimdark conspiracy stuff. I really only found it watchable because Jason Isaacs did such an amazing job with his character.

 

Thankfully, the series has gotten better since then. It actually feels like Star Trek now. Most of the time.

[csyphrett]

6 hours ago, zslane said:

 

 

 

You talk about departures from basic themes as if that is universally bad or necessarily permanent. The 2004 Battlestar Galactica series was quite different in tone and themes from the original, but was arguably superior to it in nearly every way thanks to those differences. DS9 was presented as the "darker Star Trek" series pretty much from the first episode, and by the end of the first season, I think audiences were ready for some new ideas, new themes, and a journey though darkness that would make the re-emergence into the light that much more satisfying. In the hands of the right people, the creative potential of the "evil Federation" scenario could have been gloriously realized, while in the hands of Berman, Piller, and everyone who thinks just like them, those ideas are viewed as wrong-minded and antithetical to Star Trek.

The new galactica was not that good.

CES

[zslane]

30 minutes ago, csyphrett said:

The new galactica was not that good.

 

It was at first. But by the end of season 2 it was pretty clear that the Cylons, like the showrunners, did not really have a plan after all. The problem wasn't that the new tone and direction was a mistake, or even poorly executed. The problem was that they didn't know where to take it after the initial premise had played out. Lost suffered similarly, IMO, though it nevertheless remained a pop culture sensation right up to the bitter end.

[Lord Liaden]

On 12/4/2021 at 12:37 AM, drunkonduty said:

 And Deep Space Nine. Never actually watched it before (bar the odd bit here and there.) It strikes me as a less good Babylon 5.

 

It gets progressively better after the first season. Much better.

[csyphrett]

5 hours ago, zslane said:

 

It was at first. But by the end of season 2 it was pretty clear that the Cylons, like the showrunners, did not really have a plan after all. The problem wasn't that the new tone and direction was a mistake, or even poorly executed. The problem was that they didn't know where to take it after the initial premise had played out. Lost suffered similarly, IMO, though it nevertheless remained a pop culture sensation right up to the bitter end.

I just liked the original better. Lorne Greene and Dirk Benedict were just way better in their roles as the patriarch and the Solo. Terry Carter actually commanded as an xo. I admit I didn't like the kid or the robot dog, but they were reminders of what the stakes were if the Viper pilots blew it.

 

I looked at the new Galatica and thought Voyager and Lost in Space (original and movie) did it better

CES    

[csyphrett]

Watched the last episode of season one of Columbo with the boy. Architect thinks he can trick Columbo into digging up an empty space so he can hide his victim under a building.

CES

[Lord Liaden]

6 hours ago, zslane said:

 

It was at first. But by the end of season 2 it was pretty clear that the Cylons, like the showrunners, did not really have a plan after all. The problem wasn't that the new tone and direction was a mistake, or even poorly executed. The problem was that they didn't know where to take it after the initial premise had played out. Lost suffered similarly, IMO, though it nevertheless remained a pop culture sensation right up to the bitter end.

 

56 minutes ago, csyphrett said:

I just liked the original better. Lorne Greene and Dirk Benedict were just way better in their roles as the patriarch and the Solo. Terry Carter actually commanded as an xo. I admit I didn't like the kid or the robot dog, but they were reminders of what the stakes were if the Viper pilots blew it.

 

I looked at the new Galatica and thought Voyager and Lost in Space (original and movie) did it better

CES    

 

The difference in tone was what turned me off from the remake. The original BSG was about hope, and wonder, courage and honor, and the bonds of family and comradeship. The remake was dominated by grief and loss, cynicism, distrust and betrayal, and the most extended dysfunctional family imaginable. The original often inspired me, despite how the quality sank over time. The remake might arguably boast superior quality in some areas, but it frequently depressed me, and that wasn't the experience I wanted. I tried at first, but I just couldn't bring myself to stick with it.

[Spence]

10 hours ago, zslane said:

 

It was at first. But by the end of season 2 it was pretty clear that the Cylons, like the showrunners, did not really have a plan after all. The problem wasn't that the new tone and direction was a mistake, or even poorly executed. The problem was that they didn't know where to take it after the initial premise had played out. Lost suffered similarly, IMO, though it nevertheless remained a pop culture sensation right up to the bitter end.

 

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

 

The difference in tone was what turned me off from the remake. The original BSG was about hope, and wonder, courage and honor, and the bonds of family and comradeship. The remake was dominated by grief and loss, cynicism, distrust and betrayal, and the most extended dysfunctional family imaginable. The original often inspired me, despite how the quality sank over time. The remake might arguably boast superior quality in some areas, but it frequently depressed me, and that wasn't the experience I wanted. I tried at first, but I just couldn't bring myself to stick with it.

 

While I enjoyed the first part of the remade BSG, it quickly went downhill.  Fast.

 

I think I enjoyed the initial part because at the time they really seemed to understand the portrayal of a warship.  There are a lot of small details that stand out if you are familiar with naval vessels.  And the depicted space combat was pretty good.  I especially liked the Galactica as it was depicted fully engaged.

 

But all of the good was slowly and relentlessly choked by the crapfest of a storyline.

 

So many outstanding possibilities just squandered.

[Joe Walsh]

Finished S3 of 'In the Dark' -- I'm good with leaving Murphy's story where it ends up.

 

Finished S1 of 'Inside Job' -- It's a genuinely funny animated series that posits most conspiracy theories are true, there really are secret cabals running things, etc. Good stuff!

 

 

 

[Spence]

OMG... I cannot believe this at all. 

 

I noticed that the new movie Dune has become available go stream and decided I would check it out.  

 

$24.99 to rent!?!!?

And $29.99 to "buy"????

 

Are these people mentally damaged?  $25 to watch one time and $30 to have access to to a virtual copy?

 

Unbelievable...

[Ternaugh]

3 hours ago, Spence said:

OMG... I cannot believe this at all. 

 

I noticed that the new movie Dune has become available go stream and decided I would check it out.  

 

$24.99 to rent!?!!?

And $29.99 to "buy"????

 

Are these people mentally damaged?  $25 to watch one time and $30 to have access to to a virtual copy?

 

Unbelievable...

 

Or you can preorder the 4K UHD+Blu-ray+digital copy on Amazon right now for $29.99. You'll just have to wait until January 11 to watch it.

[Joe Walsh]

HBO Max:

S1 of Love Life was pretty good (4/5). S2 is about the same, a couple of episodes in.

Watchmen (2019) is a good mini-series so far (I'm about half way through). Different than the comic, but good.

 

[tkdguy]

Watching more French TV shows online:  Arsene Lupin and The Art of Crime.

[Bazza]

The Pink Panther. 

[Spence]

OK, I cracked.

 

It has been so long since I saw a movie worthy of the name that I needed to see one.

 

So I watched the first and only movie adaptation of Frank Herbert's Dune.

 

First they actually read the book and made a good attempt to bring it to the screen.

They did change up some events in the timeline, with a few items happening earlier in the movie than they did in the book, at least from what I remember.  But nothing really changed the overall story in the end.  

The movie ends at a point that could be either the midpoint if they go with a two part, or the first of three parts depending on how they pace things.  

 

The movie was slower than the current trend in action movies and if you are not familiar with the source material some scenes may not have the same impact.  For instance there is a scene with Duncan Idaho (Jason Momoa) fighting Sardaukar.  But the movie does not spoon feed you that they are Sardaukar or what Sardaukar are.  You are given the information that they are Sardaukar earlier and the movie does not hold your hand later. 

 

All in all, the movie was Dune and I really look forward to the next film.

 

 

[Starlord]

I was also impressed by the Dune movie.

[mattingly]

13 hours ago, Spence said:

So I watched the first and only movie adaptation of Frank Herbert's Dune.

 

If you get the chance, it's worth watching in the cinema to get the surround-sound effect.

 

[csyphrett]

It's Columbo night and our detective has to contend with a murderous conductor and another fake kidnapping. The second one ends with one of the better denouncements.

 

i don't understand how you're going to explain how this bullet came from the gun found in your niece's place.

CES  

[Greywind]

[Starlord]

The Witcher Season 1 - I watched this again in preparation for S2...wow, it is so much better when you understand the timeframes in which each segment/episode is happening.