Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

[Supernaut]

What's the tendency for your campaigns? I've noticed gamers coming from a more fantasy oriented background lean towards killing the villains, because then you can take their stuff.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

I don't know that I see a direct corollary there. Just about everyone in my group started with D&D ages ago.

 

However, all of them are at least passingly familiar with the tropes of the genre.

 

Despite this, the players and I determine if a CvK is appropriate or not on a per character basis... and it's not worth points in my games, so there's no pressure one way or the other...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

What's the tendency for your campaigns? I've noticed gamers coming from a more fantasy oriented background lean towards killing the villains' date=' because then you can take their stuff.[/quote']

 

One of the reasons that superheroes don't generally kill is the comics code from the 50's. Another is that it's far easier to reuse good villains (see Joker) than creating new ones for each new storyline.

Making up a bad guy with a set of neat combat abilities (like a Fantasy monster) is generally easier than making up a bad guy with an interesting back story and personality. The time invested in the latter can sometimes far outweigh any spent on Hero mechanics.

 

Keep in mind that the "let's take their stuff" mentality doesn't work in superheroic/champions game since all 'stuff' that is carried and used on a regular basis has to be paid for with character points.

In a Heroic game, stuff can be gained and lost on the fly and characters generally only pay points for the perks to carry more stuff or the skills to effectively use said stuff (weapon familiarities, magic skills, etc...).

[megaplayboy]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

I'd say jail or rehabilitation, in the last campaign I ran. At the extreme, a convicted supervillain might spend 50 years in jail, and be offered 2 or 3 options: permanent exile(if they try to come back, it's a REALLY bad idea, as in use of lethal force may be authorized to stop them), depowering(if at all possible) and a lengthy period of close monitoring, or voluntarily submitting to "behavior modification" (think psychic surgery) plus a shorter period of monitoring. The third option is of course the most controversial, with critics slamming it as contravening free will. But there's no death penalty in most nations, including the US, and "life" sentences aren't generally imposed(the 50 year sentence is referred to as "half life"). Heroes who kill villains on anything more than a no-other-choice, very uncommon basis are technically in violation of a secret accord reached between representative heroes and villains at the tail end of the Iron Age(due to the out of control carnage that took place in an "anything goes" environment), and will first get a stern lecture from a fellow hero, followed, if they persist in their killing ways, either by being turned into the authorities by a group of heroes, or unceremoniously bumped off by a group of supervillains, depending on who gets there first.

[srvronsim1]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Generally speaking, it's jail. Some villains have been rehabbed successfully, but most get mopped up and sent to either Stronghold or Toddleberry Asylum. There was only one instance where a villain's death wasn't either accidental or necessary and that involved PSI and the exploitation of children.

[Naanomi]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

A mixture of all three, depending...

 

Jail/Mental Rehab is the usual, with a few specialized rehab centers that try to turn first time or very low end Supervillains into Heroes... But very long jail sentences are common, and death sentances are not unheard of. However, as true in most comic book worlds, 'fake' rehabilitation and breakouts are a very, very common occurrence.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Typically Jail; most supervillains are too nuts or self-absorbed to truly be rehabilitated, though every so often one does (which can be very rewarding for PCs). We don't allow killer PCs in our games, so that never happens; in theory, a villain could get capital punishment, though it's never come up.

[The Oz]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Usually they escape, so I can use them again.

 

Lesser villains get jail time, and very rarely get rehabilitated (and most of those break their parole eventually anyway). Villains in jails usually break out, or get broken out by others, thus providing more adventures.

 

Villains who die (or at least seem to die) are almost always the victims of their own plots and devices. I don't approve of killer PCs, either.

[JohnOSpencer]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

My PCs work closely with UNTIL, so they just turn all the villains over to them. This mean jail. I've only ever had one supervillain killed, and that was by 'accident' (autofire KA on an entangled speedster will do that).

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

In my campaigns, villain deaths are rare and usually accidental. There was one recently where the heroes told me, "next time we see him, he's gonna die." They had just seen the villain (Electrocutioner, converted from Heroes Unlimited) fry an innocent woman. However, part of his backstory is that he survived the electric chair, IIRC he died and came back, so the heroes' attempt to kill him was only temporary as well.

 

The running gag is that Stronghold has a revolving door. But as someone else pointed out, reusing a compelling character is just smart GMing.

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Typically Jail; most supervillains are too nuts or self-absorbed to truly be rehabilitated' date=' though every so often one does (which can be very rewarding for PCs). We don't allow killer PCs in our games, so that never happens; in theory, a villain could get capital punishment, though it's never come up.[/quote']

How about villains getting themselves killed? (in other words, getting hoisted with their own petards?)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

How about villains getting themselves killed? (in other words' date=' getting hoisted with their own petards?)[/quote']

 

Assuming we're thinking the same thing, I can't recall ever seeing that happen and having it stick. Typically, when the villain falls into his own deathtrap, there's not enough left to ID ... which means he got away. No body, not dead.

[dmjalund]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Assuming we're thinking the same thing' date=' I can't recall ever seeing that happen and having it stick. Typically, when the villain falls into his own deathtrap, there's not enough left to ID ... which means he got away. No body, not dead. [/quote']he buys Personal Immunity to his own death traps?

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Hey, when you're already buying Area of Effect and Damage Over Time out the wazoo for your radioactive lava pit, why not spring for the extra +1/4?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

he buys Personal Immunity to his own death traps?

 

Would *you* build a deathtrap you couldn't escape from?

[Badger]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Well most of my characters are partial to kill, if they can get away with it (on the theory that the prison is unlikely to hold them for long). Course, 2 of my character have a checkered past. (one as a former villain pre-start, the other with many occasions of working as a mercenary). Usually they cant get away with it (team members being more merciful). Rehab isnt something that occurs to them (no, the former villain was pardoned, he didnt really reform per se, though not quite as bad as early on, though he wasnt exactly evil per se either, complicated circumstances, though he does qualify as cold and ruthless)

 

They dont really believe in rehab. Some can be turned, maybe. But, it isnt worth any effort to try.

[baronspam]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

As a GM, I think you really want to keep your major villains alive. Agents, minions, lackeys, lower level super mega-agents and operatives, etc, can hit the ground riddled with holes if you are playing that kind of Iron Age campaign, but for goodness sake don't let the Villians die too often. Which is not to say that they should always escape with an evil lauch and a twirl of their proverbial moustache, but from a story point of view you want your high level badguys to stick around for a while. Or at minimum get them recycled somehow; bring them back as undead, rebuild them as cyborgs, transplant their brains into alien bodies, something. If you have invested significant work and story time into a villain don't treat them like an DnD orc chieftan that won't live to see the end of the encounter.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

As a GM' date=' I think you really want to keep your major villains alive. Agents, minions, lackeys, lower level super mega-agents and operatives, etc, can hit the ground riddled with holes if you are playing that kind of Iron Age campaign, but for goodness sake don't let the Villians die too often. Which is not to say that they should always escape with an evil lauch and a twirl of their proverbial moustache, but from a story point of view you want your high level badguys to stick around for a while. Or at minimum get them recycled somehow; bring them back as undead, rebuild them as cyborgs, transplant their brains into alien bodies, something. If you have invested significant work and story time into a villain don't treat them like an DnD orc chieftan that won't live to see the end of the encounter.[/quote']

 

Yes.

And for keeping villians alive, don't forget the estranged sibling who want revenge for you killing thier sibling, the parent, the child of, the long lost cousin, who take up the costume and modus operendi in order to *get* the people who...

 

Oh, yes, and the copycats, the ones who found the abandoned bases, the villian who's just pretending to be the deceased, the clone...

 

Yes, interchangeble minions who have one character sheet for 200 characters can die and stay dead. But the valuable NPC villian...

[megaplayboy]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Dead villains often have a slew of villain associates/allies/friend/drinking buddies. They may even have a few contacts with villain teams, villainous agencies, and organized crime. And a hero killing a villain "changes the game". All the other heroes will now have to deal with villains who are paranoid about getting killed, and may think the best move is to kill the hero(es) first. That may manifest in double-teaming, ad hoc alliances, lethal traps, and a dramatic increase in the proportion of villains with killing attacks(and worse, armor-piercing killing attacks, body drains, etc.). Basically, if you as a GM don't want your heroes to go on villain-killing sprees, there's plenty of ways to demonstrate what a big mistake that is, without even getting NPC heroes and law enforcement involved.

[Ice9]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

As a GM, I think you really want to keep your major villains alive. Agents, minions, lackeys, lower level super mega-agents and operatives, etc, can hit the ground riddled with holes if you are playing that kind of Iron Age campaign, but for goodness sake don't let the Villians die too often.

I think the trick with this is keeping the right balance. Capturing a villain should mean something; sure, they may eventually break out, but even after that, they're lying low for a while, rebuilding their forces. They definitely shouldn't be sprung out by the next day and attacking the city again within a week - that leads to a "kill them all" attitude by the players. Also, some villains should stay captured. If Dr. Impossible always breaks out, that means he's really hard to contain. If everyone always breaks out, that means the prison is crap, and so there's no point putting them there - again, leads to "vigilante" PCs.

[sinanju]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

I think the trick with this is keeping the right balance. Capturing a villain should mean something; sure' date=' they may [i']eventually[/i] break out, but even after that, they're lying low for a while, rebuilding their forces. They definitely shouldn't be sprung out by the next day and attacking the city again within a week - that leads to a "kill them all" attitude by the players. Also, some villains should stay captured. If Dr. Impossible always breaks out, that means he's really hard to contain. If everyone always breaks out, that means the prison is crap, and so there's no point putting them there - again, leads to "vigilante" PCs.

 

And there's always the same reaction possible from NPCs. If the PCs have a reputation for killing them all and letting god sort them out, the supervillains they face (or who expect to face the PCs) may decide to play hardball too. No more Joker-style gags or amusing riddles and other showmanship. No more "death traps"--when the hero is lying stunned or unconscious at their feet, just cap them. "Two in the head, then they're dead."

 

Then other heroes react badly, which escalates the violence. And pretty soon the government gets involved and law enforcement tries to intervene to prevent (or put a lid on) this gang war spiraling out of control in their city/state/nation. If you think an all-out war between mob families or street gangs is bad...think about the same thing going on when the combatants can level city blocks. When the superheroes and supervillains start making Anytown USA look like Europe after WWII...something has to be done.

 

Even if it's a gentleman's agreement to "play nice" lest this happen. Again.

[baronspam]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

I think the trick with this is keeping the right balance. Capturing a villain should mean something; sure' date=' they may [i']eventually[/i] break out, but even after that, they're lying low for a while, rebuilding their forces. They definitely shouldn't be sprung out by the next day and attacking the city again within a week - that leads to a "kill them all" attitude by the players. Also, some villains should stay captured. If Dr. Impossible always breaks out, that means he's really hard to contain. If everyone always breaks out, that means the prison is crap, and so there's no point putting them there - again, leads to "vigilante" PCs.

 

This is a good point. Defeating the villains should set them back seriously. They should be out of the story for a bit, be it sitting in prison, recoving from being mostly dead, or just rebuilding resources and hatching new schemes. Heck, even Dr. Destroyer took a decade off after that mess in Detroit. Run an arc or two with another main villian for a while before you bring them back. And when you do, you can use any of the tricks mentioned by myself or other posters- to reintroduce them in a differnet form.

 

Honestly, I don't see why Batman, even if he wouldn't kill the Joker, didn't break EVERY FREAKING BONE IN HIS BODY, twice, just so he would stay down for a while. If the superprison/super mental hospital is just a revolving door all but the most fanatical "do gooder" heros will stop sending the badguys there. The victories should mean something, but at the same time, you shouldn't just throw away a good villian because he lost a fight.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

Greetings Programs, as a Game Master the Minions almost always stay in jail unless there is a Plot Thread left over. Supervillains can be imprisoned and generally stay there save for they are Hunted's. As a Player I have had lots of experiences with fake Police, Agents, etc... who claim the Supervillains as their prisoners. On one occasion my character suspected the truth and actually arrested the fakes. Sending all the bad guys to jail. On one or two occasions captured Supervillains who attacked my character's DNPC's or slaughtered innocents never make it to court. The Joker would never see hand cuffs let alone the inside of a jail cell.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[Balabanto]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

I have had an accidental villain death where the PC's unknowingly generated his weakness and poisoned him. He died in seconds. It was pretty funny, in a twisted sort of way. Granted, it was an evil alien fungus/slime beast, but still, it was pretty hilarious.

[Vulcan]

Re: Kill, jail, or rehabilitate, what happens to your villains?

 

I usually run Fantasy, so villians either make an escape while the PCs deal with minions... or they die.

 

For my characters that I played in the old game... villians either beat the crap out of us, or we narrowly force them to give up their goal and leave. Kill, jail, or rehabilitate? You assume the GM will let them loose!