RDU Neil Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 I don't understand everyone's issue with the Red Skull. I thought he was exactly like the Skull from the comics, and fit the pulp villain mold quite well. Thanos was interesting, but his base motivation is so nonsensical that it undermines the excellent portrayal. I'd personally put Alexander Pierce much higher, and Zemo in the top five. slikmar and Matt the Bruins 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 I'd say the main liberties MCU took with the Skull was equalizing him with Cap (the comic Skull had no serum backing him up) and making the skull his real face (although eventually, it became his real face, so that's just adopting present comics). Certainly no more a liberty than Cap being superhumanly strong instead of "just" a peak human. Personality-wise, he felt like the comic-Skull to me, using the Nazi party to advance his own power and agenda, the latter not dissimilar other than himself as the leader. Probably the two issues were killing him off (a common "movie vs comic" difference, and no more "dead" than he has been multiple times in the comics) and lack of screen time (again, tough to cram a 70+ year comic book history for one character into a 2 or 3 hour movie). To me, Cap was the first MCU picture that was really true to the comics. Iron Man felt something like Robocop to me, and Thor was deathly afraid to make Asgardians mythical rather than scientific, but Cap - he felt like Cap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 I would have ranked Loki well above Killmonger without hesitation. Just sayin'. drunkonduty, Matt the Bruins, Armory and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 My favorite villain remains Kilgrave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 42 minutes ago, zslane said: My favorite villain remains Kilgrave. I would agree, but I'd argue we have to look at the MCU separately from the Netflix Marvel, as the style and approach and medium are just too different. Who knows how amazing Malekith or Ivan Venko might have been, given a TV season to bring their character to life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 Maybe what you wanted to see were the scenes that Rourke ranted about being cut from the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: (the comic Skull had no serum backing him up) In the comics, Skull got a clone of Cap's body at some point, including the serum benefits. I'm not sure if that's been wiped by a more recent retcon or not, but there is at least some parallel for it in the comics. Juicing him up for the movie was likely the only way to make his standing toe to toe with Cap for even a couple of minutes plausible, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 The Netflix shows take place in the MCU. By definition that makes all of their characters legitimate contenders for any "best of" (or "worst of") list. Armory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said: In the comics, Skull got a clone of Cap's body at some point, including the serum benefits. I'm not sure if that's been wiped by a more recent retcon or not, but there is at least some parallel for it in the comics. Juicing him up for the movie was likely the only way to make his standing toe to toe with Cap for even a couple of minutes plausible, too. Unquestionably the only way to make the movie work as it did. Action heroes don't tend to fight through minions to discover a 98 pound octogenarian mastermind... The last I recall, Skull was not (I think) still a CloneCap, but had surgically implanted portions of Prof X's brain in his, giving him similar mental powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 38 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said: The last I recall, Skull was not (I think) still a CloneCap, but had surgically implanted portions of Prof X's brain in his, giving him similar mental powers. That Skull guy's always the life of the party! What will he think of next? drunkonduty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 Included partly for its retrospective qualities, but mostly 'cause it's cool. pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 RDU Neil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2018 drunkonduty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 We Asked Kevin Feige If We Will Learn How The MCU Ends Before We Die https://uproxx.com/movies/kevin-feige-avengers-4/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 That's a question only someone who's never read comic books would ask. The MCU doesn't "end" any more than the 616 continuity "ends". It goes on as long it continues to make money for Marvel/Disney. What a dumb question. Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 5, 2018 Report Share Posted May 5, 2018 It was just click bait. We already knew, and have known for a long time, that this is the wrap up of the first stage of the MCU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 RDU Neil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 I do enjoy me some Luke Cage. This use of Bushmaster, and the scenes of Misty with her cybernetic arm look good. We'll see if Marvel can maintain a full season of amazing this time. I rate the shows so far: Daredevil Season One: Well done crime thriller that used the full season to introduce a deep cast and complex plot, with proper time spent developing Marvel's second best villain in Kingpin. Jessica Jones Season One: Probably the best work by Marvel so far. An amazing performance by Ritter, best supporting cast and introduced Mike Colter who matched Ritter all along the way, truly gut wrenching personal character arc that drives the plot, and Marvel's single best villain on screen in Tennant's Killgrave. "What... Murdercorpse was taken?" hah! Daredevil Season Two: Almost as impressive as the first season, using the length of the series to flesh out two full stories... the Elektra/Hand war and the Punisher arc... introducing another powerful performance in Bernthal's Castle, giving Karen Page her own development, the proper Foggy/Murdock fallout, etc., and bringing the character of Elektra to life (and death) really effectively. Luke Cage Season One: The first half of this show was the strongest work by Marvel, period. The Cage/Cottonmouth dichotomy, the rich cinematography and commitment to Harlem as a place/emotive setting, the musicality of the story telling... absolutely amazing. Unfortunately, the second half, after killing off Cottonmouth (which could have worked, because Mariah is just as compelling a villain) fell into a mess of unnecessary plot elements (have to bring in Striker, have to bring in the scientist, have to bring in the dead ex-lover who might have betrayed him) that made it lose focus. There were some brilliant moments in the second half, but the final showdown with Striker was badly filmed and left the series on a down note, which is too bad, because this could have been the best thing ever. Iron Fist Season One: Less said, the better. A truly bad show that felt rushed to production, with a complete mis-cast of the title character and, for the first time, a lack of solid writing. The first of the Marvel series were slow paced with plenty of deep character moments, but the writers of Iron Fist just inserted "lots of pointless talking", a plot that made little sense and was clearly forced to setup the inevitable Defenders series, and ultimately failed in its one true mission, to bring a real flare for martial arts/wuxia style... lacking any real choreography, martial training, or commitment to fight scenes that Iron Fist demands. (Daredevil had way better fight scenes, and he is the crime series, Jones is the noir detective battling personal demons, Cage is the socially conscious everyman hero... Iron Fist needed to bring the Shaw bros./jet Li aspect/or go full tilt into the pulp legacy of Iron fist, but failed to do either.) Almost unwatchable by the end... which is too bad, as Iron Fist is one of my personal favorite characters since I was a kid. Defenders Season One: Good that it was kept to 8 short episodes, but still felt too long... the same flaws from Iron Fist dragged down this... the Hand as a shadowy organization were misused and ultimately failed to be compelling as villains (though Sigourney Weaver tried)... Elektra was done well, but the show lacked focus on her... they took the hand out of their ninja costumes, which actually worked well in DD Season Two, so why make them generic thugs now? It was just generally a let down all around. Punisher Season One: Both amazing and lacking at the same time. As a powerful action thriller with deep characterization and a straight forward plot fully enriched by a look at veterans, PTSD, and the price of violence, it was a great show. As a Marvel show... it wasn't anything. It completely lacked any reason to be tied to the Marvel universe, stripping out anything comic-like, and grounding the show much more in reality. It was "a version" of Frank Castle, but it didn't work as part of a larger Marvel Universe. Separate it from the rest of the shows and the MCU, it is great, but it otherwise is too human, too real to actually fit... which is head scratching. They clearly showed how to do Punisher with supers in DD Season 2, so not sure why they went this direction for the show. drunkonduty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Daredevil season 1 was the best. After that the shows were varying degrees of "meh". The first half of Luke Cage was awesome, but after they killed Cottonmouth it just got muddled and confused. Daredevil season 2 was alright, but uninspired. Jessica Jones never did anything for me, and Kristen Ritter was a chore to watch. She basically had one facial expression through the whole show. Iron Fist was a mess. The only thing interesting in that entire series was Ward Meachum. I could watch a show about that guy. Defenders was uneven as well. While I liked seeing more of Daredevil and Luke Cage, unfortunately they also put Iron Fist in it. I tried to watch the second season of Jessica Jones, but only got like two episodes in before switching to rewatching Cheers (it's on Netflix!). Oh, that wacky Sam Malone. Haven't tried Punisher yet. I'll give Luke Cage 2 a shot. There's a lot of potential there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 I put Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones season 1 at the top spot together, and I agree with RDU Neil with his ranking of their villains. I also agree that the less said about Iron Fist the better. It is just too easy to imagine how it could have been infinitely better, and so it is infuriating we got what we did. Similarly, Defenders just felt perfunctory, and the villain motivation was lame. I put it ahead of Iron Fist just for the fun character interactions, but that's not saying much. I differ from most people's views on Luke Cage in that the entire first season left me almost completely disinterested in what was going on, even though I liked the Misty Knight character quite a lot. Luke himself is quite charismatic despite his leave-me-alone vibe, but the show as a whole simply didn't connect with me. I felt the stakes were simply too small and inconsequential to make me care. If you're going to narrow the iris of dramatic scope that much, better I think to make the story a highly personal character study, like Punisher season 1, rather than an oh-noes-there-goes-the-neighborhood riff in which the incidental music is more entertaining than the plot. As for Punisher season 1, I thought it was quite compelling and very well executed. And while I agree that it doesn't really feel like a superhero show, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I mean, I wouldn't want more than one show like this for the MCU, but having a show that explores the non-superpowered corners of the Marvel universe is a worthy thing if done well, which I feel Punisher was. Daredevil season 2 wasn't bad, and in fact the Punisher arc was quite riveting. But the Elektra arc was a little disappointing, perhaps because the whole supernatural resurrection thing didn't fit into the overall architecture and tone of these Netflix shows. Jessica Jones season 2 was merely forgettable, which is a shame since I like its characters. What does it say about the series that I'm more excited to see where they go with Trish than Jessica for season 3 (assuming there is one)? RDU Neil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Jessica Jones Season 2 I found compelling until the last couple episodes. The supporting cast, especially Hogarth, had great arcs (Trish was a mess and a terrible person, and that made her compelling). I thought Jessica's initial arc of getting more together and willing to put in the effort and connect with people was strong... but they completely lost me at the end with her sudden turn around with her mother and collapse into a very weak and almost helpless character. It seemed completely forced and out of character, especially because, in the end, they tried to show her being 'nice' again... which made no sense. It was like, again, the series was too long and they forced all this unnecessary drama mess at the end to fill time that would have been better cutting a couple episodes out and having Jessica put her mother down (one way or another) as a defining character moment, rather than falling into the passive, other people's actions push me around mode we found. It was really frustrating to me that they went in that direction, as a show that turns completely on the character development arc of the protagonist, to have it lose traction in that area so completely. I was just listing them in order of their release... my personal preference. First half of Luke Cage Season 1 Jessica Jones: Season 1 Daredevil Season 1 Daredevil Season 2 Punisher Season 1 Second half of Luke Cage Season 1 Jessica Jones Season 2 Defenders Season 1 Iron First Season 1 (horrible... simply horrible) I just read that the show runner for Iron Fist and The Inhumans was the same guy. Hello HR... we need to fire for cause! Oh... and according to Wikipedia, the second season of Luke Cage is only 8 episodes (not the usual 13, so like Defenders) which I think could be a really good thing. Keep the series and action tight. Don't try to do too much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Cage_(season_2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Comcast is trying to horn in on the Disney/Fox deal with a cash offer for Fox: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/05/07/comcast-said-plan-cash-deal-beat-disney-fox-assets/588876002/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 Comcast is welcome too as long as Marvel gets their characters back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.