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Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND


Bazza

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47 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

Okay, now I want Captain Marvel to succeed just because I don't want it tanking to ruin chances for Kamala!

 

WOOT

 

Seriously. If Marvel manages to do this... to bring Kamala Khan to the big screen, with a script by G. Willow Wilson, please... I'll be very excited.  

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8 hours ago, Old Man said:

Deadpool 2 was better than Deadpool 1.  I didn't even hate Cable.  How can you not hate Cable?  It's really disorienting.

 

Probably because Thanos used the Reality Stone to create the illusion of Cable's appearance, and the Time Stone to simulate Cable's time travel. 

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On 5/22/2018 at 7:41 AM, Starlord said:

Deadpool 2 was excellent, even better than the first.  The scene on the couch after Deadpool's unfortunate encounter with a certain villain whose name begins with 'J' is one of the most disturbing and hilarious in the entire history of cinema.  ?

 

Just saw Deadpool 2 last night, and enjoyed it immensely.  As someone who is not a fan of the comic book Deadpool, I'm still surprised by this.

 

I was surprised to see people leave as soon as the credits started, causing them to miss (at least IMO) a pretty hilarious and ultimately relevant set of mid-credits scenes. 

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I'll be honest and say I've mostly stopped watching marvel movies. In fact, I've seriously curtailed the amount of American media I consume at all. This is not because Marvel is making bad movies. The production values, cinematography, acting, and set-piece scenes are top notch. The movies are, overall, fun. Rather, its because Marvel, like most American media these days, has fully embraced the obnoxious trend of ideological didacticism. I believe this devalues art. Art is cultural product and politics is downstream from culture. I'm an art and culture snob in the sense that I consider our political class unwashed barbarians. They have no business interfering with art. 

 

When you politicize art it becomes rank propaganda and loses its intended impact. When you attempt to legislate culture it ceases to be haute or lowbrow (I enjoy both). Rather, It becomes an oppressive and farcical caricature of culture. It is also, quite frankly, tonally dissonant and off-putting. You can address serious social issues in cinema in an intelligent, nuanced, provoking way without resorting to sophomoric binary framing of issues and soap-box lectures. One of the most counter-productive ways to address a social issue is preaching. Art doesn't tell its audience what to think. Art merely provokes rather than informs reaction. The writers at Marvel are becoming increasingly didactic. 

 

Part of the problem is that I have been consuming a lot of cinema and television from around the world. I'm not consuming in an Anglo bubble. One show I watched recently was the Spanish crime drama Mar Del Plastico. Now, it is a Spanish show. These cops have no business looking this good. These cops have way more sex while doing their jobs than is quite right. And, MARIA! There is melodrama ramped up to 11. Yet, this show tackles refugees and racism in Spain today in a far more intelligent, nuanced, and story-driven way the propagandists masquerading as script-writers in the US do today (I'm looking at you SWAT!). None of the characters stop and tell you what you should think and feel about an issue. You are confronted with characters on both sides and forced to react.

 

Deadpool 2 was an exception that consciously called the trend out and played with it, but it will not stop the tide. And, 20 movies in, I'm looking for something other than superheroes, anyways. Variety is the spice of life. Heresy on the Hero Boards, I know! Again, I am not saying Marvel is making bad movies or that being more inclusive is bad. I'm 100% for more women and minority heroes on screen insofar as its done well and doesn't undermine its goal in the first place. And, even the bad Marvel movies are top shelf in a technical sense. But, as someone who loves comics as a form of literature and art, I will say the trend is that Marvel is now producing movies that - while spectacular in the literal sense - are neither literary nor artistic.   

 

Finito and Excelsior! 

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As a rule (there are always exceptions, of course), Hollywood believes that the average American movie-goer (or television watcher) will fail to get the message if it is nuanced, subtle, or delivered through a strategy intended to get them to think for themselves. Even journalism today is partisan editorializing masquerading as "news" in an attempt to be entertaining and polarizing at the same time. For the most part, American media doesn't inform or provoke thought. It delivers a carefully curated payload of groupthink which bonds easily with the viewer's confirmation and expectation biases. That's how shows acquire and maintain a loyal, if largely unthinking, audience. If you're hoping for more than that from your American entertainment, then you definitely need to be looking elsewhere.

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8 minutes ago, zslane said:

As a rule (there are always exceptions, of course), Hollywood believes that the average American movie-goer (or television watcher) will fail to get the message if it is nuanced, subtle, or delivered through a strategy intended to get them to think for themselves. Even journalism today is partisan editorializing masquerading as "news" in an attempt to be entertaining and polarizing at the same time. For the most part, American media doesn't inform or provoke thought. It delivers a carefully curated payload of groupthink which bonds easily with the viewer's confirmation and expectation biases. That's how shows acquire and maintain a loyal, if largely unthinking, audience. If you're hoping for more than that from your American entertainment, then you definitely need to be looking elsewhere.

 

I agree overall. To be fair, there are some American shows that make an effort to do better. They aren't the majority, but every so often I run across something that doesn't scream "written by boorishly didactic idiots." 

 

Less so the mainstream news....

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1 hour ago, Bazza said:

Marvel get its first official Chinese superheroes
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44078700

 

I wonder how they feel about the past creations of Chinese heroes, not by the Chinese, but by American Marvel... the Collective Man, Red Lotus, etc?  Worse yet, the cliché and stereotypical villains Radioactive Man and Mandarin. How does Marvel deal with that? Will we see Aero and Lin Lie teaming up with the People's Defense Force?  heh. 

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Well, by calling these new characters "Marvel's first official Chinese superheroes" -- or at least not correcting the people who did -- it sounds like Marvel is quite willing to ignore those earlier efforts. ;) FWIW I thought the Collective Man, although rather cliche, was at least a fairly original concept, and probably would have matched the image for the country the Chinese government favored at the time of his creation.

 

And I also want to give props to the stable of Chinese superheroes in the current official Champions Universe. A larger, more diverse, and better-researched selection than the mainstream comics publishers can boast.

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8 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

 

I wonder how they feel about the past creations of Chinese heroes, not by the Chinese, but by American Marvel... the Collective Man, Red Lotus, etc?  Worse yet, the cliché and stereotypical villains Radioactive Man and Mandarin. How does Marvel deal with that? Will we see Aero and Lin Lie teaming up with the People's Defense Force?  heh. 

 

Eh.  If you don't want us to make you stereotypical villains, don't point nuclear missiles at our country.

 

Chinese people aren't morons.  They understand Cold War propaganda.  We don't have to pretend it didn't exist or apologize for it.

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