Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Matt the Bruins]

Maybe his response to COVID-19 makes more sense if you assume similar encouragement to voters who die before they cast their ballots. Chicago-style electioneering.

[archer]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

Vote early and vote often, I guess.

 

Trump Urges Supporters To Go To Polls Even After Voting By Mail

 

At least Trump has provided us with a viable backup plan in case he wins the election. What he did was clearly illegal and was documented by multiple news services.

 

I don't think the Democrats made their best efforts to remove him from office with the first impeachment since he was much more valuable as an opponent who is easy to beat in the presidency. But if Trump wins re-election, the Democrats would have no reason to hold back. 

 

They'll have this crime documented plus the self-enrichment crimes from having Secret Service stay in his hotels and Trump holding official government events in his hotels (both of which were extensively documented by the Washington Post). Likely a lot more but at least those, off the top of my head.

 

Heck, they could impeach him in the House today since there's no need for an investigation or arranging testimony. I don't think that's in the Democrat's best political interests so they won't do it immediately. But after the election....

 

[Old Man]

I love hearing from people who think laws have any actual effect on Trump. I lost that  level of optimism over a year ago. 

[archer]

3 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I love hearing from people who think laws have any actual effect on Trump. I lost that  level of optimism over a year ago. 

 

Well, the law itself doesn't affect him. But since the Democrats will be picking up a lot of Senate seats and this violation of law is so flagrant that Republicans won't be able to argue that it never happened, that does give me a sense of optimism that there'd be widespread pressure on Senators to vote for impeachment.

 

I'll freely admit that I'm an idealist. It's the Senators' obligation to uphold the Constitution and part of that obligation is to remove an impeached president when he's clearly guilty. This one is completely unambiguous.

[unclevlad]

59 minutes ago, archer said:

I don't think the Democrats made their best efforts to remove him from office with the first impeachment since he was much more valuable as an opponent who is easy to beat in the presidency. But if Trump wins re-election, the Democrats would have no reason to hold back. 

 

They'll have this crime documented plus the self-enrichment crimes from having Secret Service stay in his hotels and Trump holding official government events in his hotels (both of which were extensively documented by the Washington Post). Likely a lot more but at least those, off the top of my head.

 

Heck, they could impeach him in the House today since there's no need for an investigation or arranging testimony. I don't think that's in the Democrat's best political interests so they won't do it immediately. But after the election....

 

 

If the Republicans control the Senate, there is no degree of proof, and no crime, that will be sufficient for McConnell to allow it to be considered.

 

I'm not sure there's a plausible scenario where the Republicans lose the Senate AND Trump wins the Electoral College;  states where the Republicans lose a Senate seat seem unlikely to favor Trump in the presidential vote.  And a loss of that many Senate seats would seem to imply an electoral college loss.  Going a step further, the worst possible move would be to try another impeachment.  It'd be a clear waste of time and let Trump's supporters have a field day, denouncing the sleazy, impotent Democratic attempt.  Always remember:  TRUMP is the Master of Distraction.  He thrives in it, and another impeachment would only be a distraction...to them.

[Badger]

11 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

I voted for both of them in sequential presidential elections. Make of that what you will. Clinton was one of the best fiscal conservatives that we ever had. As for the Anti-Christ/Christ moniker, I really don't subscribe to that brand of mythology. 

Well, it can be argued he was a fiscal conservative partly due to Gop Congress, which suggest my theory on gridlock been best to keep one party or the other from screwing us over.  Regardless Bush and Obama thought they were Richard Pryor in the movie Brewsters Millions.

 

Course, for modern fiscal conservatives even they are drunken sailors letting themselves get fleeced by the local port prostitute.

2 hours ago, Old Man said:

I love hearing from people who think laws have any actual effect on Trump. I lost that  level of optimism over a year ago. 

What made you think politicians were ever legally accountable.

[megaplayboy]

This has now been corroborated by a second reporter's own independent sources.  

That this is obviously "beyond the pale" is manifest.

It also further illustrates what I've thought for years: No one has more contempt and disrespect for supporters of Donald J. Trump than Donald J. Trump.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

 

What made you think politicians were ever legally accountable.

 

I miss the days when we believed a conversation like this could ever occur.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

22 minutes ago, megaplayboy said:

This has now been corroborated by a second reporter's own independent sources.  

That this is obviously "beyond the pale" is manifest.

It also further illustrates what I've thought for years: No one has more contempt and disrespect for supporters of Donald J. Trump than Donald J. Trump.

 

Many, perhaps most, in the military are not Trump supporters. If they were they stopped after ignorant and contemptuous remarks and actions like this.

[archer]

Trump is doubling down on asking his voters to vote twice. Repeats what he said in North Carolina today in Pennsylvania.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/515081-trump-skewers-biden-suggest-again-supporters-vote-twice-in

 

To recap:

 

Trump quote from the Wednesday WECT tv interview in North Carolina: “They will vote and then they are going to have to check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way because if it tabulates then they won’t be able to do that. So let them send it in, and let them go vote. And if the system is as good as they say it is, then they obviously won’t be able to vote. If it isn’t tabulated, they will be able to vote. So that’s the way it is, and that’s what they should do.”

 

From Trump's Twitter after his TV interview: "Based on the massive number of Unsolicited & Solicited Ballots that will be sent to potential Voters for the upcoming 2020 Election, & in order for you to MAKE SURE YOUR VOTE COUNTS & IS COUNTED, SIGN & MAIL IN your Ballot as EARLY as possible. On Election Day, or Early Voting,.......go to your Polling Place to see whether or not your Mail In Vote has been Tabulated (Counted). If it has you will not be able to Vote & the Mail In System worked properly. If it has not been Counted, VOTE (which is a citizen’s right to do). If your Mail In Ballot arrives........after you Vote, which it should not, that Ballot will not be used or counted in that your vote has already been cast & tabulated. YOU ARE NOW ASSURED THAT YOUR PRECIOUS VOTE HAS BEEN COUNTED, it hasn’t been “lost, thrown out, or in any way destroyed”. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!"

 

(Note that ballots are eligible to be counted if they received by election day and, in some places, if they are postmarked as late as election day. Also note that there's no way for ballots which are going to be counted but which are still in the mail to be delivered on election day...or are inside one of those special ballot drop-off boxes on election day...are going to have the names of the person who voted by mail to be stricken off the precinct voter rolls. But Trump is trying to give the impression that those ballots still in the mail or received but not yet opened and counted are part of a big fraud scheme so his supporters should attempt to vote twice.)

 

Trump today in Pennsylvania: “Sign your mail-in ballot, OK? You sign it and send it in and then you have to follow it. And if on election day or early voting, that is not tabulated and counted, you go vote,” Trump told the crowd. “And if for some reason after that — it shouldn’t take that long — they’re not going to be able to tabulate it because you would have voted. But you have to make sure your vote counts, because the only way they are going to be able to beat us is by doing that kind of stuff.”

 

(Note in Pennsylvania, if you vote twice you can be fined up to $10,000, be imprisoned up to five years, and be stripped of your right to vote for up to five years under Pennsylvania law 25 P.S. §3535. I looked up North Carolina law at one point today but don't remember the penalty for voting twice exactly. It was something like a $15,000 fine and five years in jail, no specific mention of being stripped of your right to vote but if it's considered a felony, I wouldn't be surprised if you lost your right to vote in future elections. That could certainly be one path to turn red states to blue....)

 

[unclevlad]

Yet another new low.  

 

Quote

Last weekend, Representative Steve Scalise, the Louisiana Republican, shared a video clip featuring Ady Barkan, a progressive activist, asking Joe Biden, “Do we agree that we can redirect some of the funding for police?” To which Mr. Biden responded, “Yes, absolutely.”

 

Except that Mr. Barkan, who has amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and communicates with the aid of a computerized voice, had not included the words “for police” in his question. Those were spliced in by Mr. Scalise’s team, making it seem as though Mr. Biden was expressing direct support for defunding the police — something he explicitly opposes, no matter how loudly Republicans claim otherwise. Mr. Biden’s criminal justice plan, in fact, includes $300 million in additional funding for police departments.

 

Admitted to faking it, absolutely unrepentant, asserting he's trying to show Biden's true nature.  Oh, and did we mention he's the #2 Republican in the House?

What kind of slime are we electing?  Don't bother answering, it's rhetorical.

 

It's gone to the Ethics Committee, but the Republican Caucus should start by stripping him of his position and any serious committee chairs.  We all expect the odds of that are approximately as good as me learning to teleport.  And if he's risen to that position, odds that his district will oust him are not a whole lot better.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Many, perhaps most, in the military are not Trump supporters. If they were they stopped after ignorant and contemptuous remarks and actions like this.

 

All we need remember is his contemptuous post with regard to John McCain's being a prisoner.  Makes any denial of the comments attributed in these stories ring even more false than usual.  (Is that possible?)

 

Worth a quick read:  polling inside the military.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/

 

My general feeling is that the military generally votes more Republican than Democratic, so while it might not be that many votes, it's a significant swing.

[Badger]

Gotta feel a little for vets, with those remarks and the fact many of the ones I know have the feelings* that the average Dem politician actively hates them for serving. They dont have much choice in their minds.

 

*their view, a lot of them are still sore at the Dems for words and actions from circa 2003 to 2010 or so.

[Old Man]

I know several vets who would gladly die for Trump. Unquestioning loyalty is unquestioning, even in the face of blatant contempt and corruption. They know Trump hates them. It doesn’t matter. 

[Badger]

I wouldn't say you are wrong with the ones I know either.  I dont want to speculate how much their defense of America or their ideal image of America might factor in. So, until then, it is a benefit of the doubt thing.

 

 

[Cygnia]

The Pentagon has ordered Stars and Stripes to shut down for no good reason

[Lord Liaden]

The article strongly implies the order is coming from Trump. I'd wager good money he took offense at something printed in it. Unless the idea of a news organ of the government that doesn't toe his line just sticks in his craw.

[unclevlad]

"Higher priority items" == the wall.

 

It'll be interesting to see how much this drives Republicans away from Trump.  Not just active duty, but vets, and family members.  This is a terrible political move, IMO.  It is noteworthy that 4 Republican Senators signed the letter to reverse the action and retain Stars and Stripes.  

[wcw43921]

Delta Air Lines Upgrades Black Woman Harassed By Blue Lives Matter Flyer

[archer]

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

The article strongly implies the order is coming from Trump. I'd wager good money he took offense at something printed in it. Unless the idea of a news organ of the government that doesn't toe his line just sticks in his craw.

 

The Military Times published a poll of military voters Monday of last week before all of Trump's anti-military remarks became public. In that poll, he was already way behind Biden.

 

It's entirely possible that Trump confused the Military Times with Stars and Stripes.

[archer]

A Trump supporter dies and goes to the pearly gates. There he sees St Peter and gets excited and walks towards the pearly gates.

 

St. Peter says, "I want you to know, on the whole you were a good person, that's why you're going in. But we almost had to send you to hell because you voted for Trump."

 

"What do you mean? Trump is the best president ever and a devout Christian!"

 

St. Peter snorts and says, "He's nothing of the sort. He's vain, greedy, an adulterer, racist, and corrupt. As soon as he dies we're sending him straight to hell."

 

The Trump supporter shakes his head, his eyes wide and mutters unhappily, "Oh my gosh. I didn't realize the deep state went this far!"

[Badger]

Pretty sure, entering into the world of politics damns one to hell.

[Cygnia]

Surveillance video shows bags of USPS mail being dumped in Glendale spa parking lot

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Pretty sure, entering into the world of politics damns one to hell.

 

Mmmm....no, not really.  Being successful in politics, OTOH.....

[csyphrett]

6 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Surveillance video shows bags of USPS mail being dumped in Glendale spa parking lot

They didn't learn anything from Steve Bannon, did they? Someone is going to jail over this.

CES