Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, Ragitsu said:

There is one angle to this whole "arm the teachers" suggestion that people are rarely bringing up. Just how mentally damaging it is to have teachers ready to shoot to kill 24/7 when their potential targets are, most of the time, students they are currently working with (trying to form a functional mentor-tutor relationship with, even!) or former students? Cognitive dissonance of the harshest extreme is the likely end result of such a policy being officially instituted.

 

I've questioned my friends who are teachers on this point, and they unequivocally and emphatically think that arming teachers is a terrible idea, simply because the vast majority of teachers are not cut out for everyday carry, and because the idea of having to shoot one of their students is completely counter to the mindset that they need to have as educators.

[Lord Liaden]

This is an interesting aspect of the topic to me, because I've noticed an increasing "us-vs-them" mindset in law enforcement, particularly in the United States, which appears to foster a siege mentality among police. Rather than viewing themselves as one element of their communities, interacting with them mostly on a friendly basis, police now act like everything outside their precinct houses is hostile territory, and they're constantly primed to react to threats. Their instinctive response to every potentially dangerous situation is to preemptively apply overwhelming force.

 

I'm not saying that would not be the most prudent policy in cases like these school shootings; but if that attitude starts to filter into our schools via arming teachers, that's bound to further alienate young people who already have enough trouble adapting to the world.

[Sociotard]

[Zeropoint]

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

This is an interesting aspect of the topic to me, because I've noticed an increasing "us-vs-them" mindset in law enforcement, particularly in the United States, which appears to foster a siege mentality among police. Rather than viewing themselves as one element of their communities, interacting with them mostly on a friendly basis, police now act like everything outside their precinct houses is hostile territory, and they're constantly primed to react to threats. Their instinctive response to every potentially dangerous situation is to preemptively apply overwhelming force.

 

Yep. That's one of the reasons I am no longer a fan of our Boys in Black.

[Christopher]

On 26.2.2018 at 1:38 AM, dmjalund said:

Am I naive in thinking that one of a police officer's jobs is to put themselves in harm's way?

 

22 hours ago, wcw43921 said:

Besides, it was my understanding that waiting outside to assess the situation was shown not to be a viable strategy after the Columbine shooting.  The police then and there waited to go in, and more kids ended up dying as a result.  From that moment forward the strategy was to go in as soon as possible.

 

Or am I mistaken?

It indeed is their job, no doubt about it. But they are also "only human".

I understand fear enough to know that you might plain be unable to act when the time comes.

 

It is a reason to be fired, no doubt. He simply does not work out for this job. But it is very human to be not prepared and unable to act.

[Pattern Ghost]

I can understand the resource officer not going in alone. Clearing a building is the most dangerous thing he can do, because he subjects himself to ambush from someone with a more powerful weapon that's also a lot easier to score good hits with. That's if he was only armed with his sidearm.

 

However, the three patrolmen who showed up should have had long arms in their cars. If they did, the four of them should have started sweeping the building and ushering survivors out. They had the manpower at that point to start doing their jobs, even if it would have still been somewhat dangerous.

[Old Man]

The one guy's lawyer now says that he didn't go into the building because he thought the shooter was still outside somewhere.  Draw your own conclusions.

[Xavier Onassiss]

11 hours ago, Old Man said:

The one guy's lawyer now says that he didn't go into the building because he thought the shooter was still outside somewhere.  Draw your own conclusions.

 

My conclusion is that his hearing went bad at a very convenient moment. (for him)

[Sociotard]

20 States sue that Obamacare is no longer constitutional.  It kind of makes sense, because the earlier ruling was based on Obamacare being a tax, and the constitution gives the federal government the right to tax. As the Republicans repealed the Tax part of the Affordable Care Act, they may have a point.

 

Add in that my own state is in flagrant defiance of Obamacare and so far has faced no legal opposition, it looks like Obamacare is done for.  If you'd asked me just before Trump took office, I'd have guessed that so many people were benefiting from it that the ACA would be around for a long time, with maybe some needed tweaks. Nope!

[Lord Liaden]

AFAICT the repeal was motivated by political ideology, partisanship, and special-interest groups.

[Lord Liaden]

14 hours ago, Old Man said:

The one guy's lawyer now says that he didn't go into the building because he thought the shooter was still outside somewhere.  Draw your own conclusions.

 

Now Trump is claiming he would have run into the Parkland Fla. school to help against the shooter, even if he didn't have a gun.

 

My favorite comment on this assertion is from Stephen Colbert: "What are you going to do, run in there and stab them with your bone spurs?"

[Old Man]

It's really too bad that Trump wasn't there to charge the guy with the assault rifle.  If only.

[BoloOfEarth]

Hey, he was so brave against that eagle. 

[Sociotard]

Daily Kos is very partisan Left-Wing. Anything from that site should be considered with prejudice, because they aren't even going to pretend to be apolitical.

 

That said, this was an interesting tabulation: Criminal indictments, convictions, and prison sentences for senior officials, by Presidency

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/11/1619079/-Comparing-Presidential-Administrations-by-Arrests-and-Convictions-A-Warning-for-Trump-Appointees

 

So, a few interpretations:

Democrats are less likely to appoint crooks

Democrats choose smarter crooks

The "Deep State" doesn't investigate as hard or often when the targets are democrats (except I remember how hard Starr looked at the Clintons, and all the Congressional-backed investigations into Obama. It seems like SOMEBODY would have tried hard.)

 

Between 1 and 2 . . . I'd guess number 1. Politicians are crooks, and you should never partner with a slicker crook than you, lest you be swindled yourself.

[Sociotard]

I'm tempted to read this novel from 1980: The Twentieth Day of January

 

In a surprise to all, a Wealthy Businessman with no political experience wins the presidency. He has lots of fun with the trappings of the office, but he's fuzzy on policy beyond cutting taxes. His wife doesn't care for politics, and stays home with their young son. A British Spy uncovers links between the President and Russia. Sure enough, the President starts acting more friendly to the Russians.

 

Of course, the guy in the novel was young and handsome and was smart enough to teach at Yale.

[wcw43921]

Was the author a time traveler?  Because it really sounds like the author was a time traveler.

[Old Man]

3 hours ago, Sociotard said:

Daily Kos is very partisan Left-Wing. Anything from that site should be considered with prejudice, because they aren't even going to pretend to be apolitical.

 

That said, this was an interesting tabulation: Criminal indictments, convictions, and prison sentences for senior officials, by Presidency

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/11/1619079/-Comparing-Presidential-Administrations-by-Arrests-and-Convictions-A-Warning-for-Trump-Appointees

 

So, a few interpretations:

Democrats are less likely to appoint crooks

Democrats choose smarter crooks

The "Deep State" doesn't investigate as hard or often when the targets are democrats (except I remember how hard Starr looked at the Clintons, and all the Congressional-backed investigations into Obama. It seems like SOMEBODY would have tried hard.)

 

Between 1 and 2 . . . I'd guess number 1. Politicians are crooks, and you should never partner with a slicker crook than you, lest you be swindled yourself.

 

Note that that article is over a year old.  Mueller has already indicted 30 people and organizations, 4 of whom worked for the campaign or administration, so the current administration has already surpassed all the Democratic ones in the chart... and probably has a long way to go.

[Christopher]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Now Trump is claiming he would have run into the Parkland Fla. school to help against the shooter, even if he didn't have a gun.

 

My favorite comment on this assertion is from Stephen Colbert: "What are you going to do, run in there and stab them with your bone spurs?"

Some jokes about Trump really just write themself.

 

3 hours ago, Sociotard said:

I'm tempted to read this novel from 1980: The Twentieth Day of January

 

In a surprise to all, a Wealthy Businessman with no political experience wins the presidency. He has lots of fun with the trappings of the office, but he's fuzzy on policy beyond cutting taxes. His wife doesn't care for politics, and stays home with their young son. A British Spy uncovers links between the President and Russia. Sure enough, the President starts acting more friendly to the Russians.

 

Of course, the guy in the novel was young and handsome and was smart enough to teach at Yale.

In Trumps World Trump University is better then Yale anyway. And that you let people work for you makes you smarter then them.

 

3 hours ago, Sociotard said:

Between 1 and 2 . . . I'd guess number 1. Politicians are crooks, and you should never partner with a slicker crook than you, lest you be swindled yourself.

Crooks sounds way to cynical.

Imperfect? Certainly. I mean Abraham Lincoln was a Slaveowner. And he once pardoned a guy convicted for "Atempted Bestiality".

 

And people were still swindled by Trump. The asumed the wrong half of his campaign promises was "just campaign rethoric". And the other half was "what he realy wanted".

[Lucius]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Now Trump is claiming he would have run into the Parkland Fla. school to help against the shooter, even if he didn't have a gun.

 

 

 

For once, I believe Mr. Trump.

 

To go charging into an active shooter situation unarmed and with no relevant training or experience is an impulsive, foolish, and probably ineffective thing to do.

It would be right in character.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary can see both sides of the issue.

[Ragitsu]

8 minutes ago, Lucius said:

 

For once, I believe Mr. Trump.

 

To go charging into an active shooter situation unarmed and with no relevant training or experience is an impulsive, foolish, and probably ineffective thing to do.

It would be right in character.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary can see both sides of the issue.

 

Perhaps he feels that what he lacks in OCV and DCV he more than makes up for in PRE?

[Sociotard]

PRE, -2, only on PRE attacks vs self.

[Christopher]

9 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

Perhaps he feels that what he lacks in OCV and DCV he more than makes up for in PRE?

Trevor Noahs interpretation of what he would do was basically that. The Shooter would be to dumbfounded to still know what to do.

[Asperion]

On 2/25/2018 at 5:38 PM, dmjalund said:

Am I naive in thinking that one of a police officer's jobs is to put themselves in harm's way?

There is something else to consider with this - the prevalence of modern recording devices.  Since most people today will have some form of these devices (if not more than one) they are recording everything around them, both good and bad.  At no point in human history has people been quiet and these devices only make them feel as though what is really an opinion is the total absolute truth. As a result, police today are put more frequently into a position of doing the wrong thing no matter what they do - even if it is nothing.

[Christopher]

Lootboxes. Ever since EA's Battlefront 2 Debacle, they came to public atention. Even Lawmakers. However we need to be carefull to not overdo it with the Legislation. This could easily backfire horribly:

 

[Old Man]

Meanwhile...

 

Parkland father admits to doctoring emails to make it look like CNN scripted town hall questions

 

Hope Hicks stonewalls House Intelligence committee, admits she lies for Trump, then quits

Jared Kushner finally loses security clearance after "correcting" his SF-86 four times, then still having backchannel communications with Russian, Chinese, Mexican, and UAE officials trying to leverage him and his $1.2B debt

 

Trump proposes strengthening background checks, raising minimum age for gun purchases, and seizing guns from US citizens without due process

 

Interesting times.