Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

5 hours ago, Sociotard said:

United States Youth are notoriously even more easily distracted than Donald Trump. They can do a movement for a year or so (when it is cool and fashionable), but they aren't up for long, boring, difficult task of actually changing gun control laws.  Especially as the most effective gun control laws would require a repeal of the 2nd Amendment, which would require an awful lot of red states to get on board, and that just isn't going to happen. Even as the old guys die off, it isn't going to happen.

 

Well, I'm old enough to remember the youth-driven protests to the Vietnam War, which polarized the United States. They displayed a lot of persistence. But that was an issue which affected them directly and personally. Kind of like this one.

[Lord Liaden]

Deleted double post.

[Ternaugh]

The cynic in me wonders if Trump's attempts at gun control legislation is a way of helping ailing gun manufacturers overcome the "Trump slump".

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/beleaguered-gun-maker-remington-files-bankruptcy-n847316

[Zeropoint]

It would be relatively easy to secure schools against active shooters, but it wouldn't be convenient. You'd need to make the schools actual secure zones, rather than just going through security theater.

 

The first step would be limited access: surrounding the school property with at the very least chainlink fence topped with razor wire, and allowing ingress/egress only through security checkpoints. An actual wall with razor wire would be better, since you can get through a chainlink fence pretty easily if you come prepared.

 

The other component would be making those security entrances impossible to get through by unauthorized personnel, and that's where the big slowdown comes in. You'd need armed guards for sure, and probably an "airlock" style setup where people are physically prevented from entering unless actively buzzed in by a guard who's watching from a position not vulnerable to gunfire. Obviously anyone coming in would have to go through a metal detector.

 

Such a system would make the school safe, but there are three obvious problems. First, it would take a long time to filter an entire school's worth of students and staff through it. Second, it would cost a lot of money to equip all the nation's schools that way. Finally, it would make the schools look an awful lot like a prison.

[Ternaugh]

20 minutes ago, Zeropoint said:

It would be relatively easy to secure schools against active shooters, but it wouldn't be convenient. You'd need to make the schools actual secure zones, rather than just going through security theater.

 

The first step would be limited access: surrounding the school property with at the very least chainlink fence topped with razor wire, and allowing ingress/egress only through security checkpoints. An actual wall with razor wire would be better, since you can get through a chainlink fence pretty easily if you come prepared.

 

The other component would be making those security entrances impossible to get through by unauthorized personnel, and that's where the big slowdown comes in. You'd need armed guards for sure, and probably an "airlock" style setup where people are physically prevented from entering unless actively buzzed in by a guard who's watching from a position not vulnerable to gunfire. Obviously anyone coming in would have to go through a metal detector.

 

Such a system would make the school safe, but there are three obvious problems. First, it would take a long time to filter an entire school's worth of students and staff through it. Second, it would cost a lot of money to equip all the nation's schools that way. Finally, it would make the schools look an awful lot like a prison.

 

A number of high schools constructed in Las Vegas in the mid-60s were rumored to be designed for riot control, with towers above the entrance for "controlling" the approaches. Some had a courtyard with a wall and a series of gates that the students would need to go through to get into the building, that could be closed off to hold students in a controlled area.

 

 

 

 

[Ragitsu]

Well well. As it turns out, the POS...excuse me, POTUS...is also keen on inserting garrisons into our schools.

 

1 hour ago, Zeropoint said:

Finally, it would make the schools look an awful lot like a prison.

 

Even worse: it instills a prisoner mentality in the children. Putting that burden on human beings during their formative years is a big no-no.

[Old Man]

[Ragitsu]

^ One online personality likened that "solution" to (and I paraphrase) having potential drunk drivers become so intoxicated that they pass out before they get an opportunity to sit in the driver's seat .

[assault]

Australians have no constitutional right to own sharks.

 

Clearly an oversight.

[Pattern Ghost]

10 hours ago, Old Man said:

Maybe we should try arming teachers with pencils, health care, and decent salaries first. 

 

If they didn't have to keep the criminal teachers on the job because of union lawsuits, they'd probably have more money to spread around to the good ones.

 

Seriously, though: The educational system is screwed up, and the teachers' union is a big part of it. Teachers in this area are very well compensated, yet still constantly strike, and the aforementioned multiple molesters have been put back in classrooms against the will of the schools, the parents and the communities. We all know most teachers are good people, doing an underappreciated job that's usually also undercompensated. But their union is a huge problem.

[Christopher]

3 hours ago, assault said:

Australians have no constitutional right to own sharks.

 

Clearly an oversight.

The right to own Sharks sounds like something that could bite you in the behind quickly

[Christopher]

2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Seriously, though: The educational system is screwed up, and the teachers' union is a big part of it. Teachers in this area are very well compensated, yet still constantly strike, and the aforementioned multiple molesters have been put back in classrooms against the will of the schools, the parents and the communities. We all know most teachers are good people, doing an underappreciated job that's usually also undercompensated. But their union is a huge problem.

That sounds like one of those stories that should rightfully upset you. But also are propably not happening the way you have it in memory.

Could give a few examples?

[Doc Democracy]

My key issue with arming teachers is that it instantly puts more guns inside schools.  More guns would surely mean a potentially increased availability of guns to those young people inclined to use them...

 

I think this would make school shootings more likely, not less.  

[Doc Shadow]

There's a solution that might work. 

 

Not arming teachers with firearms, but with tazers.

 

Something to consider as a sane approach, rather than the insanity of more guns.

[Lucius]

 

I hope it's okay to throw this quote out here

 

From Washington Post, 14FEB2018

Story - "White House reels as FBI director contradicts official claims about alleged abuser"

 

 

.....

When asked if Kelly could have been more transparent or truthful, that official wrote: "In this White House, it's simply not in our DNA. Truthful and transparent is great, but we don't even have a coherent strategy to obfuscate."....

 

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says they must be trying to obfuscate an incoherent strategy

 

 

[Doc Democracy]

2 hours ago, Doc Shadow said:

There's a solution that might work. 

 

Not arming teachers with firearms, but with tazers.

 

Something to consider as a sane approach, rather than the insanity of more guns.

 

The problem with that is the same as the problem of fire extinguishers, they can give a false sense of security that you might be able to handle a situation when you are well out of your league.

 

In the case of a fire, you dont report it early enough - dont think I want teachers going up against someone armed with even just a semi-automatic pistol wielding nothing but a taser...

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, Doc Shadow said:

There's a solution that might work. 

 

Not arming teachers with firearms, but with tazers.

 

Something to consider as a sane approach, rather than the insanity of more guns.

 

Worth a try, but I don't think it's enough.  It wouldn't have mattered at Columbine, Virginia Tech, or Stoneman Douglas.  The problem is that you're bringing a taser to a gunfight.

 

Public statements by members of the GOP and NRA are getting so ugly I'm ready to support an AWB just to spite them.  "Crisis actors"?  Again?  Come on.

[Sociotard]

Armed drones stored in secure cabinets with explosive bolts and a hard line to the police station. On notice of shooting, the police blow the bolts and an officer takes control of the drone, for instant armed response.

 

Just made that up and it made my inner 14 year old happy. But . . . Expensive. Cabinets are a constant reminder to students that the are under lethal surveillance. Probably some other downsides I haven't thought of. (taser armed or lethal?)

[Starlord]

My wife is an Engineering teacher - she actually has 2 drones with cameras in secure cabinets in her classroom.  No joke.

[Pattern Ghost]

8 hours ago, Christopher said:

That sounds like one of those stories that should rightfully upset you. But also are propably not happening the way you have it in memory.

 

That sounds quite condescending.

 

8 hours ago, Christopher said:

Could give a few examples?

 

Not humoring you, no. Search for incidents in Washington state.

[Old Man]

You can't post a link to support your own assertion?  Okay.

[Pattern Ghost]

15 minutes ago, Old Man said:

You can't post a link to support your own assertion?  Okay.

 

Using Google to dig up local news stories in Washington is a royal PITA, because Google can't tell the difference between the state and  D.C. I'm not wasting my time doing it to appease Christopher's condescending attitude. Or yours. We've all been posting her for YEARS. Either you trust that I'm not an idiot who can't remember a simple news story or you don't.

[Ranxerox]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

 

Worth a try, but I don't think it's enough.  It wouldn't have mattered at Columbine, Virginia Tech, or Stoneman Douglas.  The problem is that you're bringing a taser to a gunfight.

 

Public statements by members of the GOP and NRA are getting so ugly I'm ready to support an AWB just to spite them.  "Crisis actors"?  Again?  Come on.

 

You should do that.  The Average White Band had some pretty good songs.

[st barbara]

One of the problems seems to be the term "assault weapons". We need a definition of what is an assault weapon,. My suggestion for a definition of what to ban would be "any semi automatic long arm with an external or detachable magazine". That wouldn't ban every semi automatic rifle but it WOULD catch a heck of a lot of them (A R 15,Byshmaster,Armalite, DPMS and others)

[Old Man]

56 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

Using Google to dig up local news stories in Washington is a royal PITA, because Google can't tell the difference between the state and  D.C. I'm not wasting my time doing it to appease Christopher's condescending attitude. Or yours. We've all been posting her for YEARS. Either you trust that I'm not an idiot who can't remember a simple news story or you don't.

 

If I came across as condescending I apologize.  I spent ten minutes googling for stories about Washington sex offenders getting returned to the classroom, and it's definitely a royal PITA since I couldn't find any.  At any rate, I hope we can all agree that if there are sex offenders teaching in the classroom, perhaps we should not give them guns.