Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man]

Hasn't Brexit been going badly since, like, mid-2016?

[death tribble]

Even before we had the referendum.

[Joe Walsh]

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

I think both Scotland and Northern Ireland have a right good chance of having independence votes in the next Parliament, especially if Brexit is going badly.

 

The desires of those peoples are so manifestly different than those of the English, it seems the right thing to do...as sad as that is to contemplate.

 

Edited to add: I'm talking about the voting majority, above. I realize there's a spectrum in each.

[Doc Democracy]

It would have been as inconceivable as California leaving the United States.  Many of the reasons are the same.

[Hermit]

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

It would have been as inconceivable as California leaving the United States.  Many of the reasons are the same.

 

If Trump gets re-elected? I can see it being tried, or at least gaining traction. 

[Starlord]

There's no way, they'd never survive without assistance every fire season.

[death tribble]

Who ?

 

California or Trump ?

[death tribble]

Is this petulance ? US governor issues 428 pardons in final few days in office

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50786368

[Old Man]

No, it’s corruption. 

[Doc Democracy]

1 hour ago, Starlord said:

There's no way, they'd never survive without assistance every fire season.

 

The way it worked with Brexit and will work for Indyref2 is that people stop listening to concerns about cost and practicalities. 

 

Several of my Labour voting, Union friendly friends would now vote yes as independence, whatever the costs and troubles, is less scary than Tory rule in Boris' Britain.

[megaplayboy]

Sort of curious what Wales does if Scotland and NI leave the union, and the UK economy goes down the drain due to Brexit.  Imagine being Elizabeth II and seeing your "kingdom" on the brink of collapse.  Well, I suppose she's seen that before about 80 years ago.  

[Iuz the Evil]

2 hours ago, Starlord said:

There's no way, they'd never survive without assistance every fire season.

Well, maybe. I'd need to see the math on the amount of financial support redirected federal taxation might provide. On balance I'm not sure if it pencils out or not.

 

There's no way, but I don't think Federal financial support is the reason. 

[Old Man]

California is a breakeven state with respect to federal tax dollars.  Secession would be economically devastating, however, even if it were permitted, since trade barriers would go up where none existed previously.  Conversely, the Scots now have an economic choice between the EU and Boris' Brexited Britain.  I'm not an economist but that seems like a no brainer in the long run.

[Iuz the Evil]

3 minutes ago, Old Man said:

California is a breakeven state with respect to federal tax dollars.  Secession would be economically devastating, however, even if it were permitted, since trade barriers would go up where none existed previously.  Conversely, the Scots now have an economic choice between the EU and Boris' Brexited Britain.  I'm not an economist but that seems like a no brainer in the long run.

Trade barriers is definitely a reason, I can buy that. Would be devastating to both the State and the Nation, given port access and so forth. I cannot see it being allowed. I just don't see federal tax revenue or disaster support as material. 

[death tribble]

14 hours ago, Old Man said:

Conversely, the Scots now have an economic choice between the EU and Boris' Brexited Britain.  I'm not an economist but that seems like a no brainer in the long run.

Parliament does not need the Scots votes so there will be no Independence for Scotland for the foreseeable future.

[death tribble]

With the current political situation in Britain and in America I am forced to ask this:-

Has anybody here being doing deals with Nyarlathotep or Cthulhu ?

[Ternaugh]

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

With the current political situation in Britain and in America I am forced to ask this:-

Has anybody here being doing deals with Nyarlathotep or Cthulhu ?

 

No, but if you think that it would help....

[Iuz the Evil]

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

With the current political situation in Britain and in America I am forced to ask this:-

Has anybody here being doing deals with Nyarlathotep or Cthulhu ?

Saw them last night at the neighborhood holiday party, they did seem unusually upbeat but nobody specifically mentioned any deals...

[Pariah]

Among other things, California leaving the Union would mean they would give up the water rights from the Colorado River that they currently enjoy. Without that water, southern California will be in a world of hurt.

[DShomshak]

To cap it all, the Dec. 7 issue of The Economist has an article about secessionist sentiment in Alberta, Canada. Seems some Albertans are upset at their revenue balance with the rest of Canada: They feel like their tar sands are subsidizing the other provinces. Some think that if Alberta secedes, Canada's other western province, British Columbia has no choice but to follow, in a "Wexit." However, The Economist thinks it's a sufficiently minority view as to prove no real threat to Canadian union, especially since they suggest the relationship between BC and Alberta is a bit like that of California and Texas. But it makes life more difficult for PM Trudeau. Possibly, Alberta might seek a "special status" similar to that of Quebec.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

\Darn double posting...

 

Addendum: Perhaps our Canadian correspondents could comment on Alberta and its discontents?

 

Dean Shomshak

[Doc Democracy]

19 hours ago, megaplayboy said:

Sort of curious what Wales does if Scotland and NI leave the union, and the UK economy goes down the drain due to Brexit.  Imagine being Elizabeth II and seeing your "kingdom" on the brink of collapse.  Well, I suppose she's seen that before about 80 years ago.  

 

Well, Wales voted Brexit too and their economy is much more hard-wired than Scotland or NI's.  I think they are stuck there for at least a decade. 

 

Wales does not have a history of independence like Scotland over the last 50 years or rebellion like Ireland over the last 500.  It would take time to build the necessary momentum to achieve escape velocity...

 

As for the Queen, she remains monarch of Scotland just like the multitude of other Commonwealth countries.

 

Doc

 

[Joe Walsh]

As far as the economic consequence of Brexit, companies have been fleeing since the referendum. So my expectation is that post-Brexit, the Conservatives will look at the tax roll and announce that austerity is needed, and use that to cut, cut, cut anything that helps average people, such as the NIH.

 

[Doc Democracy]

19 hours ago, Old Man said:

California is a breakeven state with respect to federal tax dollars.  Secession would be economically devastating, however, even if it were permitted, since trade barriers would go up where none existed previously.  Conversely, the Scots now have an economic choice between the EU and Boris' Brexited Britain.  I'm not an economist but that seems like a no brainer in the long run.

 

19 hours ago, Iuz the Evil said:

Trade barriers is definitely a reason, I can buy that. Would be devastating to both the State and the Nation, given port access and so forth. I cannot see it being allowed. I just don't see federal tax revenue or disaster support as material. 

 

Project Fear!!  People will be lining up to trade with the New Bear Republic and there are international rules about rivers and water. 

 

Teasing obviously but when the public buy in, practicalities and details are not persuasive.  Not being allowed would be waving red flag to secessionists.  Trimble reckons Scotland wont be allowed, I don't think they can be stopped.

[Doc Democracy]

8 minutes ago, GM Joe said:

As far as the economic consequence of Brexit, companies have been fleeing since the referendum. So my expectation is that post-Brexit, the Conservatives will look at the tax roll and announce that austerity is needed, and use that to cut, cut, cut anything that helps average people, such as the NIH.

 

 

You mean NHS??  😬

 

It would be political suicide and probably end the Conservatives as a political force, possibly forever.