Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

Nikki Haley has dropped out of the Republican candidacy race. Barring court action, it will be a Trump/Biden rematch in November.

[Cygnia]

Mark Robinson: 'I Absolutely Want To Go Back To The America Where Women Couldn’t Vote'

Quote

On Tuesday, Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson won the GOP primary to become his party’s nominee for North Carolina governor, presumably with the help of female voters.

But just four years ago, Robinson said he’d “absolutely” like to return to the days when the 19th Amendment didn’t exist ― when women didn’t have the right to vote.

“I absolutely want to go back to the America where women couldn’t vote,” Robinson said in a newly resurfaced video of his remarks at a March 2020 event hosted by the Republican Women of Pitt County.

During this event, Robinson, who was running for lieutenant governor at the time, recalled someone recently asking conservative activist Candace Owens to pick which version of America would make America “great again,” one where “Black people were swinging from cheap trees” or one where women weren’t allowed to vote.

Robinson said he would definitely return to the days in America when women were denied the right to vote “because in those days we had people who fought for real social change, and they were called Republicans.”

 

[Hermit]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I owe the author of A Handmaid's Tale an apology. I used to think it was too far fetched as a setting. I didn't know it was a 2025 plan for that many GOP members

[unclevlad]

Far too many Republicans have shown they'd prefer to roll back society to the antebellum South's standards.  With rather less gentility.

[Lord Liaden]

42 minutes ago, Hermit said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I owe the author of A Handmaid's Tale an apology. I used to think it was too far fetched as a setting. I didn't know it was a 2025 plan for that many GOP members

 

Margaret Atwood, fellow Canadian. The distance between that society and today's isn't as far as we used to like to think. I wonder if in this case, it's easier for a woman to see that?

 

  

42 minutes ago, Hermit said:

Robinson said he would definitely return to the days in America when women were denied the right to vote “because in those days we had people who fought for real social change, and they were called Republicans.”

 

And those Republicans who fought for social change would repudiate what Robinson stands for now. Like so many of today's GOP, he mouths words he doesn't understand and doesn't care about, to try to craft sound bites appealing to the gullible.

 

 

[Dr. MID-Nite]

My view on civilization these days is......PROFIT.....IS.....KILIING.....US! Nuff said.

[Old Man]

21 minutes ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

My view on civilization these days is......PROFIT.....IS.....KILIING.....US! Nuff said.

 

I spend time wondering how to fix capitalism.  How hard could it be?  The current system does nothing to discourage infinite accretion of wealth, and it places no value on truth, or health, or education, or the environment. 

 

So far the only thing I can think of that might work is an expiration date on money.  Which would seem to just introduce different problems.

[Lord Liaden]

A hundred years ago, the foremost educators on capitalism stressed ethics, compassion, social responsibility. The accumulation of capital was a means to an end, not an end in itself. Along the way that message got drowned out by greed.

[unclevlad]

Alabama legislature overwhelmingly passes legislation protecting IVF providers from criminal and civil liability, and it was signed into law.

 

NYT article says, tho, it's not clear whether it'll be constitutional under the Alabama state constitution.  It would seem a near-lock that a constitutional amendment would pass, should one be necessary, but that's a much longer process, and one has to be more careful about the exact wording, due to the privileged position involved.  Ergo, it'll probably be a bit more contentious.

[Lord Liaden]

I'd love to say I believe that this was a rare example of compassion and sense from Republicans in Alabama, but I suspect it was just recognition that this court decision is so wildly unpopular, it could cost some Republicans reelection even in deep-red Alabama.

 

Nonetheless, the right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'd love to say I believe that this was a rare example of compassion and sense from Republicans in Alabama, but I suspect it was just recognition that this court decision is so wildly unpopular, it could cost some Republicans reelection even in deep-red Alabama.

 

Nonetheless, the right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing.

 

We're taking every win that presents itself.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

We're taking every win that presents itself.

 

Unfortunately, not losing isn't the same as winning.  Here, the ground for objecting to the decision is self-interest...which is unreliable.  It leaves the logic of the Alabama decision intact, while carving out only a specific exception.  The logic, tho, and its underlying basis, remain intact, to be applied in other circumstances.  Those whose self-interests are affected, may be a small minority...or even targeted in the first place.  Their voices are much more likely to be ignored.

 

13 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Nonetheless, the right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing.

 

Short term...but not necessarily true long term.

[DShomshak]

9 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

Unfortunately, not losing isn't the same as winning.  Here, the ground for objecting to the decision is self-interest...which is unreliable.

Self-interest is a lot more reliabole than altruism, or at least it's more reliable at motivating people. Anyone who wants to change public policy should certainly work on crafting arguments on how the change will benefit you, yes, you, right now or very soon. Any talk of the common good is to help people feel good about their self-interest. (The common good can still be valid, but it isn't what clinches the deal.)

 

The Alabama SC applied the principle of human life starting at conception. They correctly recognized that it was not relevant whether sperm meets egg in a womb or in a lab. To that extent, I laud their rationality. I can only hope that the Alabama legislature's carvingf out an exception for in vitro highlights the irrationality of the core assumption. But I am often disappointed in people's rationality.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

15 hours ago, Old Man said:

I spend time wondering how to fix capitalism.  How hard could it be?  The current system does nothing to discourage infinite accretion of wealth, and it places no value on truth, or health, or education, or the environment. 

 

"Infinite accumulation of wealth" is not a problem unique to capitalism. As Acemoglu and Robinson note in How Nations Fail, there's evidence that from the moment human societies began generating surpluses, there've been ruling classes to expropriate that surplus and use it to entrench their position. Brutal extraction of wealth from the many for the benefit of a few has been the rule across ages and continents. The only exceptions are hunter/gatherer societies so small and/or poor as to have no significant division of labor.

 

A contrary process is possible: Enough of the population has enough wealth (and therefore power) to resist the rulers' desire to extract ever-larger shares of the society's total wealth and power, and indeed share out more wealth and power more broadly, is possible. It's happened in modern centuries. At every step, though, the ruling class resists -- and sometimes succeeds in reversing the outward division of wealth and power, and restores the vicious cycle of wealth concentration, leading to greater concentration of power, which is used to extract and concentrate wealth still further.

 

I'll argue that capitalism is in many ways a social and moral improvement on what came before, in that it requires a large population of customers. The ruling class of the super-rich need to grant the masses at least enough wealth to buy the products of their own labor, or the money machine stops spinning. It's possible that the super-rich decide they don't care, and they'd rather get bigger shares of a smaller pie, which is why the rest of us have to keep pushing for a more distributive, less extractive, ecponomy and political system.

 

It may be that some other system can be devised that generates even more wealth than capitalism and spreads it more equitably. We don't have it yet.

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

Self-interest is a lot more reliabole than altruism, or at least it's more reliable at motivating people. Anyone who wants to change public policy should certainly work on crafting arguments on how the change will benefit you, yes, you, right now or very soon. Any talk of the common good is to help people feel good about their self-interest. (The common good can still be valid, but it isn't what clinches the deal.)

 

The Alabama SC applied the principle of human life starting at conception. They correctly recognized that it was not relevant whether sperm meets egg in a womb or in a lab. To that extent, I laud their rationality. I can only hope that the Alabama legislature's carvingf out an exception for in vitro highlights the irrationality of the core assumption. But I am often disappointed in people's rationality.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Self interest is quite reliable...but what I'm saying is, self interest won't come into play in other situations based on those core assumptions.  Carving out the exception in itself, tends to validate those core assumptions which, as you note, are irrational.  

[Iuz the Evil]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/europe/sweden-join-nato-official-intl/index.html
 

Sweden ends a 200 year policy of nonalignment going back to the Napoleonic wars to join NATO. This is absolutely devastating to Putin’s dreams of empire reconstruction, and in my opinion a huge success for the safety and stability of Europe in the face of Russian expansionism. It’s also a repudiation for military adventurism as a political tool. 
 

Good news in my book. Sweden is no joke, Finland either, when it comes to their military contribution to the alliance. As a deterrent force, NATO just got stronger.

[Old Man]

Biden just gave the best State of the Union speech I've ever seen.  And I've seen many.  Amazing energy level throughout an 80-minute speech for a man who was supposedly "too old". 

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Iuz the Evil said:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/europe/sweden-join-nato-official-intl/index.html
 

Sweden ends a 200 year policy of nonalignment going back to the Napoleonic wars to join NATO. This is absolutely devastating to Putin’s dreams of empire reconstruction, and in my opinion a huge success for the safety and stability of Europe in the face of Russian expansionism. It’s also a repudiation for military adventurism as a political tool. 
 

Good news in my book. Sweden is no joke, Finland either, when it comes to their military contribution to the alliance. As a deterrent force, NATO just got stronger.

 

The Baltic states must be breathing a little easier, knowing they now have two new strong allies across the Sea.

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, Old Man said:

Biden just gave the best State of the Union speech I've ever seen.  And I've seen many.  Amazing energy level throughout an 80-minute speech for a man who was supposedly "too old". 

 

Also surprisingly combative, taking shots directly at Trump (although not by name), the SCOTUS, and Republicans in Congress for their regressive, obstructionist, and dictatorial attitudes and policies. I get the impression Biden has had enough of trying to work with them. If they want a fight, he's ready to take the gloves off.

 

Maybe Joe Biden can prove he actually is the right man for the time.

[Hermit]

9 hours ago, Old Man said:

Biden just gave the best State of the Union speech I've ever seen.  And I've seen many.  Amazing energy level throughout an 80-minute speech for a man who was supposedly "too old". 

 

I wouldn't say it is the best I've ever seen, but I liked the fact Biden was assertive rather than apologetic.

"I know you can read"

 

Timidity is getting the Democratic party nowhere

[Lawnmower Boy]

9 hours ago, Old Man said:

Biden just gave the best State of the Union speech I've ever seen.  And I've seen many.  Amazing energy level throughout an 80-minute speech for a man who was supposedly "too old". 

Have you heard Joe Biden is old? I knew an 81-year-old guy who died of oldness when he was sixty! That guy couldn't be President on account of being dead do long his corpse could vote. Just saying it's concerning. Has anyone considered just giving up? I mean, doing stuff is hard! Especially when you're old!

[megaplayboy]

I plan to peak when I am 85.

[Hermit]

[DShomshak]

Indeed, Biden didn't actually say, "You want a piece of the old man? Come at me, punks," but that's sort of the impression I got. And past time.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Cygnia]

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/us-army-soldier-indicted-military-information/3376969/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_CHBrand#ltix5c26xpsusqh4nld