Champions Abroad

[steriaca]

We have Champions of the North (for Canada) and we had in 4ed Kingdom of Champions (for Great Britain area). What places would you like to have a CotN style sourcebook for?

 

(Remember, names pending)

6ed Kingdom of Champions 

Champions Down Under (Australia sourcebook)

Champions of the Rising Sun (Japan)

Viva Champions (formerly Champions Down South) (Mexico and Central America)

Champions of Africa (formerly Darkest Champions) (Africa, Egypt, and the Middle East)

[Lord Liaden]

First two as a top priority. Both because they're primarily English-speaking with goodly numbers of Hero gamers, and culturally accessible due to common roots. The first Kingdom of Champions demonstrated the tremendous supers potential in the UK, which is long overdue for development within the current setting. Moreover, the notes about it in Champions Universe indicate significant amounts of the old KOC were carried over into this universe.

 

OTOH Australia is criminally underutilized for Champions. As I've mentioned elsewhere, it would be easy to explain a sudden boost in the continent's super population. Other parts of the world are certainly deserving of development, but will require author(s) with more cultural expertise and hence probably more expensive.

[archer]

32 minutes ago, steriaca said:

Champions Abroad

 

Champions: "Look! A Broad!" and Other Anti-Feminist Stereotypes

[Greywind]

Didn't we get Luche Libre Hero for Mexico?

[steriaca]

3 minutes ago, Greywind said:

Didn't we get Luche Libre Hero for Mexico?

Yes, but that only covers Wrestling Based Supers. Besides, it is a bit more likely to get a supplement then Champions of the Rising Sun. More hispanics in the country than first generation roleplaying asians, let alone Japanese descended people. 

[Mr. R]

I would do it in the  order presented, IE:

 

6ed Kingdom of Champions 

Champions Down Under (Australia sourcebook)

Champions of the Rising Sun (Japan)

Champions Down South (Mexico and Central America)

Darkest Champions (Africa, Egypt, and the Middle East)

 

 

I would just change the last one to Champions of Africa.  Seriously take a look at M&M Atlas of the world for a very positive take on the Continent.  They have a very interesting take on the Xavier School for mutants that is fantastic!

[assault]

I'd rethink the titles of the last two.

Champions Down South defines a whole continent and a bit in terms of the USA.

 

As for Darkest Champions - oh dear.

[steriaca]

5 hours ago, assault said:

I'd rethink the titles of the last two.

Champions Down South defines a whole continent and a bit in terms of the USA.

 

As for Darkest Champions - oh dear.

Champions of Africa is an acceptable replacement for Darkest Champions (I wanted to invoke the phrase Darkest Africa which invokes the idea of a deeply unexplored country, but I can also see the racial problems of the title).

 

As for Champions Down South, well I agree on second view that it doesn't exactly state what it is. Would Viva Champions or Champions Hispania work better?

 

...which begs the question, where is the Spanish language edition of Champions Complete...?

Any other places need work? Champions of Russia? Champions of China?

[assault]

South and Central America also includes Brazil, which is world's biggest Portuguese speaking nation.

 

There are also countries in South and Central America that were former British, French and Dutch colonies, as well as some Caribbean islands that were colonized by other European countries at various times.

 

Given this history and the history of the US in the area, I would tread very warily in writing about this area. Ideally, get people who live in these countries to do this.

 

On a mostly less serious note: I'm tempted to write "Champions of New Zealand", as an example of how you can get things wrong. I'm an Australian, and I would absolutely mess it up.

[Jhamin]

1 hour ago, assault said:

South and Central America also includes Brazil, which is world's biggest Portuguese speaking nation.

 

There are also countries in South and Central America that were former British, French and Dutch colonies, as well as some Caribbean islands that were colonized by other European countries at various times.

 

Given this history and the history of the US in the area, I would tread very warily in writing about this area. Ideally, get people who live in these countries to do this.

 

On a mostly less serious note: I'm tempted to write "Champions of New Zealand", as an example of how you can get things wrong. I'm an Australian, and I would absolutely mess it up.

 

 

Yeah, the idea that a large geographical area can be summed up easily and homogeneously is just going to get the publisher into trouble.  Africa is a place, but there is an incredible amount of diversity there.  And the whole "Darkest Africa" thing is... not so acceptable anymore.

"European Enemies" is an old 4th edition Villain book widely considered to be the worst product ever put out for Champions.  A lot of that has to do with how bad the writeups for the characters are, but there is also a lot wrong with how cliched all the characters are, and how they are all written from an American point of view.  The Swiss guy has watch based powers, the Scottish villain is a Banshee, the German Guy is named "The Wall" as it was written during the cold war, the Italian guy is a Mafia Don (modeled after movie Mafioso, not actual ones) etc.

If there was an author actually from once of the places that wanted to write a book that reflected local culture I would be super down with that, but I'd be really leery of a South America book written by someone from Chicago who has never been there and ends up creating a team that includes Samba Man, RainForest Lord, a guy with Soccer themed powers and they have their HQ in the big statue of Jesus outside Rio de Janeiro.

If we only get a limited number of Hero Books, I'd much rather see one about the IHA, Argent, The book of the Crown (Dark Seraph), etc than I would like to see a detailed writup of South America (for example).

[steriaca]

1 hour ago, Jhamin said:

 

 

Yeah, the idea that a large geographical area can be summed up easily and homogeneously is just going to get the publisher into trouble.  Africa is a place, but there is an incredible amount of diversity there.  And the whole "Darkest Africa" thing is... not so acceptable anymore.

"European Enemies" is an old 4th edition Villain book widely considered to be the worst product ever put out for Champions.  A lot of that has to do with how bad the writeups for the characters are, but there is also a lot wrong with how cliched all the characters are, and how they are all written from an American point of view.  The Swiss guy has watch based powers, the Scottish villain is a Banshee, the German Guy is named "The Wall" as it was written during the cold war, the Italian guy is a Mafia Don (modeled after movie Mafioso, not actual ones) etc.

If there was an author actually from once of the places that wanted to write a book that reflected local culture I would be super down with that, but I'd be really leery of a South America book written by someone from Chicago who has never been there and ends up creating a team that includes Samba Man, RainForest Lord, a guy with Soccer themed powers and they have their HQ in the big statue of Jesus outside Rio de Janeiro.

I get that. But that is the problem. The "get someone who plays Hero from that country" might be an impossibility.

 

First we need someone from that country...

who plays roleplaying games...

and who plays the Hero System in general and Champions in specific...

then can write and read in english...

then is willing to write a Champions supplement based on their country and their countries comic book superhero population. 

 

How many people do you know which can fit that bill.

 

I don't know if there are any RPGs which are in the Spanish language in Mexico, let alone a Spanish language version of DND.

 

I know RPGs exist in Japan. The Arc has even introduced Hero when he went down there.

 

Wouldn't the Arc be willing to write something based on his time in Japan?

[dmjalund]

It might be easier just to get someone from that country as an adviser

[Jhamin]

2 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

It might be easier just to get someone from that country as an adviser

 

This might be a way to go.

I live in the Midwest USA and we get a fairly constant stream of stereotypes and condescension when we appear on TV and in Movies.  If there was a "Champions MidWest" filled with super powered Hockey Guys, inbred hicks, put Pilot: Tractor on the everyman skill list, and everyone had Psych Complication: Fear of Mountains I would be a bit miffed. 

 

The fact that our "Australian Heroes" thread resulted in a character that someone had to warn the thread was named with an N-Word level racial epitaph makes me think throwing out a Japan book or an Africa book needs to be handled with some sensitivity......

[Opal]

I thought RPGs had been an international thing for quite some time?

 

Why do I have that impression...  I'm so often wrong about these things....

 

...I know D&D swam across the pond early on because one of the more famous early D&D modules, the Crystal Cave, was British...

 

... I seem to recall In Nomine was originally French, it came out in the 90s...

 

... there were a few Brazilians, on WoD forums when it was popular, and a noted on-line Mage geek was Anders Sandberg, of Sweden... still 90s...

 

...it doesn't seem that unusual that someone on an RPG forum mentions English isn't their first language... 

42 minutes ago, steriaca said:

I don't know if there are any RPGs which are in the Spanish language in Mexico, let alone a Spanish language version of DND.

On ENWorld.org there's a regular who has written stuff for D&D's on-line thing... DM Guild, I think it's called... 

...MoonSong is her handle.

 

,,,Yeah, OK, my impression's mainly from on-line forums and just a few people formed that impression, that and a couple 90s games.  IDK what the current environment is, nor the market or traslation status of RPG books.

[DShomshak]

All by itself, Mexico would offer quite sufficient scope for a Champions supplement.

 

Trust me on this. No, I'm not Mexican, or have even been to Mexico. But I ended up writing a large chunk of Mexico City by Night for White Wolf (Vampire: the Masquerade). In a mere few months of research and writing I learned that Mexico City is, all by itself in the real world, more gigantic and fantastical than I could possibly do justice to. I did my best given the time allotted, but the vampire-specific material was less beautiful and horrible and strange than what I got from tourist guidebooks. If Mexico City were in a Fantasy novel, people would say it was too over the top. And anyone who thinks they've "got it" in just a few months of research is flipping insane.

 

Viva Champions could be a great supplement, but wow, it would be a challenge to do justice to the country.

 

Dean Shomshak

[death tribble]

Champions Texas

Champions Yorkshire

 

Neither place considers themselves part of the whole of the mother country and indeed consider themselves the only true representation of the country

[assault]

15 hours ago, death tribble said:

Champions Texas

Champions Yorkshire

 

Neither place considers themselves part of the whole of the mother country and indeed consider themselves the only true representation of the country

 

Champions Scotland, ya bawbag.

 

[death tribble]

Scotland and England have a better relationship than Yorkshire and England

 

Consider it was perfectly legal for someone in York to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow.. That is until a whole set of bylaws were scrapped by Act of Parliament.

[assault]

On 4/3/2021 at 3:37 AM, Opal said:

I thought RPGs had been an international thing for quite some time?

 

They are, and there are a whole bunch of games not written in English. Some have been translated, but most haven't.

 

I'm not sure if there are many HERO players in non-English speaking countries.

 

There used to be a neat little supplement for the British game "Squadron UK" called Superfrance,written by a French author. Unfortunately it's no longer available. It was very short, but cut to the chase by essentially saying "in superhero comics, Paris = France. That's a cliche, but just roll with it".

[assault]

1 hour ago, death tribble said:

Scotland and England have a better relationship than Yorkshire and England

 

Consider it was perfectly legal for someone in York to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow.. That is until a whole set of bylaws were scrapped by Act of Parliament.

 

Heh. My paternal grandfather was from Glasgow, and my grandmother from Harrogate. (They met in Australia.)

 

Her family were not impressed by her marrying a Catholic.

 

Long story short: I have an aversion to organized religion and a preference for Celtic over Rangers.

 

Do we need a Champions book to explain that? Probably not.

[Black Ops]

IIRC there are/have been at least some germans active on these boards (aside of me).

Since travel is our national pasttime I also guess we can help covering at least some parts of Europe from the Tourist perspective. (Not British Islands through. I think there are enough Forumites for that)

[Sketchpad]

Has there been a new Champions of the North? I'd love to see a revision of that book.

[steriaca]

1 hour ago, Sketchpad said:

Has there been a new Champions of the North? I'd love to see a revision of that book.

Yes, I believe there is either a 5th or 6ed edition of it.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I'd love to see more of these books, more backgrounds on superheroics from the perspective of people living in those areas.  Champions Down Under never happened, sadly   Would have been a great trifecta and given us some better heroes than the usual boomerang kangaroo aborigine types Americans come up with.

[Sailboat]

How about Champions of the Pacific Rim?  You could consider Japan in or out of that definition depending on the amount of material you have.  But pick up Indonesia, Micronesia, Polynesian culture, New Zealand, New Guinea, Sumatra-Borneo, Java, Krakatoa, sharks, garbage patch (ok that's in the middle), maybe China, Singapore, those sorts of things.  All sorts of thing for heroes t concern themselves with -- storms, smuggling, piracy, human trafficking, poaching, Easter Island, maybe a Space X splashdown gone wrong, and so on.  It's underused as a locale, despite being the biggest one on Earth.