Vampires in Supers Setting

[Vestnik]

I know they are cliched to the point of, well, being a cliche, but every campaign needs vampires. Here's my problem.

 

I was writing up a classic cinematic vampire as a hero with all the cliche powers (turning into mist, wall-crawling, changing into a bat and wolf etc.). In the course of doing so I realized that vampires, well, kind of suck. I couldn't see a classic Dracula-type character as having more than a 30 STR, 35 tops, giving him a whole 6d6 or 7d6 attack.

 

Any ideas as how to ramp up a vampire so as to make them competitive with superheroes, without leaving the "classic cinematic vampire" model behind?

[CraterMaker]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

A lot of a vampires power is going to be derived from how you play him.. From their traditional powerset, you can see that they have a LOT of escape powers- This suggests to me that vampires aren't really combat machines. If you want to make them more powerful, ramp up their hypnosis powers and their ability to control people they bite.

 

If, as a cloud of mist, the vampire sneaks into a supers room late at night and gets a good bite in while she's sleeping... well, you've just upped his power quotient. If he's hypnotised reporters, or a gang, or .. well, you see what I mean. Remember his high presence, too - If he acts tougher than he is, and you don't spell out his powers for the heroes, you can put a healthy level of respect and fear for the vampire into the PCs..

 

From a traditional perspective, working behind the scenes and/or ambushing people, away from their friends, is the strength of a vampire.

[Vestnik]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Come to think of it, the classical Vampire is not portrayed as an ass-kicking machine -- as you allude to, they're sneaky more than tough (except for being unkillable by normal means).

 

Vampire, Frankenstein's Monster, the Werewolf, the Mummy -- the only classic movie monster I can see being "superized" without really changing the concept is the lycanthrope. That's basically what Sabertooth is, right? Supers would roll over all the others in combat.

[Kirby]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Ack! Well, before I help, I have to say I'm sick of Vampire and half-vampire PCs in games. However, since you're probably saying "Kirby, this isn't for your campaign," I'll add the following information:

 

Stalker from BBB was a nice, threatening vampire and he had a 45 STR. To help save on points, he had an "Elemental Control - Vampire Powers" which included a 1.5d6 AP HKA (3d6+1 w/STR), Mind Control, Teleport, and Telepathy.

 

He had +15 STR, but only after draining human blood (-1; *may* be considered -2 for a "Hero" ), 1d6 cumulative Transform (to vampire), Gliding (cape), enhanced hearing, IR Vision, bonus PRE (only vs PRE attacks), Life support.

 

His skills were Stealth, Survival, Seduction, Portugese, Spanish, English.

 

Now, he was built on 468 points, but with an EC and some work (and not making yours as powerful as Stalker) you might be able to work it in a 350 game. I would start out by figuring out all the vampire powers you want to have and whichever is the smallest in points, making 1/2 that the base of your EC. He also had 175 points in disads that I can see your PC taking, (as well as 105 that you may/may not take) so maybe the GM would allow you the same in order to start out above the 350 max.

 

Just, beware the Tick's Little Wooden Boy.

[Vestnik]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Thanks Kirby. I know they've been done to death, but I've always wanted to play Dracula With A Heart of Gold.

 

I tried doing this with Frankenstein's Monster (frozen in a block of ice, thawed out in present day, yada yada yada) but I just couldn't make the character competitive without totally changing the conceot, at which point he was no longer the Monster.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Yah, acutally Ive statted up Vampires a few times...and some other classic cinematic monsters.

 

All of them can be expensive to do right, but if you model all the usual Vampire powers Vampires can be ridiculously expensive while not being very effective in the context of a supers campaign.

 

 

The main thing to remember is that Vampires are usually used as antagonists for NORMALS, vs which they are overpoweringly potent and thus fearsome, but vs actual full blown supers they are pretty weak.

 

Even in Marvel Comics back when they were using Vampires as villains they were really only used as antagonists for more "street level" heroes, like Blade and Daredevil. As a for instance, Blade was pretty weak in supers terms, but he kicked a lot of vamp @$$. That's basically the perspective youre looking at.

 

 

As with all things, its all relative. As a seque I used to play a lot of White Wolf in my youth -- Vampire when it first came out (before the goth LARPers took over), Werewolf briefly, and then Mage the Ascension 2nd Edition (which is one of my top 3 games of all time).

 

I switched groups several times over the years as I moved around (I was in the military), but the last group I played with for a while and we had a combined World of Darkness campaign with a lot of continuity.

 

In the latter half I was huge into Mage, and played one named Marcus Landers who started off with 3 dots in Forces, Matter, and Prime and over time upped them; he also picked up a dot of Mind along the way. In 2e Mage a character with Prime 3 Forces 3 (IIRC) could make sunlight as a relatively routine feat -- vulgar perhaps but not that difficult -- and thus Marcus would routinely make sunlight from his seemingly mundane flashlight.

 

It was very interesting running around in the shared setting where Vampires were powerful, and feared, and dangerous, having a character that could basically deep fry one if he a) saw them coming and could hit. His other effects also basically made him highly resistant to damage, mental effects, and things of that nature and he used a special "shotgun" as a focus for brutal Matter / Forces attacks.

 

Vamps trying to physically or mentally dominate him were not succesful; this is where their strengths at stealth, subtlety, and trickery came into play.

 

Thats what makes Vamps dangerous -- they have a lot of options -- they are generalists rather than specialists. Thus they can adapt to their prey / opponents. If they cant just overpower an opponent they can change tactics and go stealthy. Plus they are hard to kill permanently -- vampires are always coming back in source material. They're like undead cochroaches.

 

So yes you can make a Vampire that is challenging for supers, but no its not usually going to be by competing with supers straight up.

[Zed-F]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Another thing to consider, if you really do want a combat-heavy vampire option, is that any decent vampire has been around the block a few times and might well have learned some martial arts. Once you have that, and borrow the idea of celerity from WoD, presto, you have instant killing-machine potential.

[CraterMaker]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Mmm I like the idea of mixing archetypes - Like a John Woo Gunslinger Vampire, or something.. betcha you could find a nifty character doing that.

 

What if he was a vampire mutant?

 

-CraterMaker

[Cancer]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

My impression is that a huge part of what makes vampires so effective, versus norms or heroes, falls in the Presence bailiwick. They're just frickin' diabolically scary, no matter who you are. High PRE, PRE Drains against victims, PRE Aids for themselves. I think it takes a roleplaying-heavy (as opposed to combat-heavy) campaign for vampires to be good villain material, though.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

Another thing to consider' date=' if you really do want a combat-heavy vampire option, is that any decent vampire has been around the block a few times and might well have learned some martial arts. Once you have that, and borrow the idea of celerity from WoD, presto, you have instant killing-machine potential.[/quote']

 

A vampire with several centuries of experience, especially if he's travelled rather than always hunkering down in a castle , could have picked up all sorts of combat techniques, such as Martial Arts or Find Weakness. These could included legendary arts possessed by "super" class martial artists. If the vampire has abilities like Flight or Teleportation (perhaps as part of the SFX of their mist or animal forms), they could move around a battlefield very effectively. And if you give them effective natural weaponry such as fangs and claws, they may have adapted their fighting style to use these to best advantage.

 

Another option is sorcery. If you have vampires your campaign probably already allows for magic, and a vampire with a suite of supermagic spells augmenting his natural abilities has a lot of options.

 

Mmm I like the idea of mixing archetypes - Like a John Woo Gunslinger Vampire, or something.. betcha you could find a nifty character doing that.

 

What if he was a vampire mutant?

 

Exactly so. This is a comics universe, after all - influences from many different sources cross-pollenate all the time. A vampire may have had superhuman powers before he was "turned." A master biologist or cyberneticist could have experimented on the vamp, augmenting his natural abilities or giving him new ones. And what benefits might accrue to a vampire who drinks the blood of a superhuman?

[Balabanto]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I have always believed that Vampires make lousy superheroes. As Scott Bennie, the genius of our age as far as Superheroes and The Law are concerned, once said:

 

The constitution entitles everyone to the promise of one man, one vote. It does not entitle one man to create as many subservient votes as he can.

 

That being said, logic clearly dictates that your character would be HUNTED BY THE US GOVERNMENT on a 14-. Furthermore, vampires violate the 14th amendment, as any vampire that turns someone into a vampire, willingly or unwillingly, is guilty of keeping slaves, and is therefore in violation of the constitutional rights of his victim.

 

So, if you want to do it, sure. I just wouldn't count on being alive for long. There's only one good Vampire as Superhero story, and if you haven't read Kurt Busiek's "Confession" from Astro City, you should.

[LoresLost]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

When I think Vampire in a Superhero world I think DCs 'I, Vampire'. A Vampire driven to fight his own kind. When I think of cinimatic monsters in a Super world I think of DC's Wierd War Tales and the Creature Commandos.

 

Sorry I was a DC geek.

 

But I Like a government agency 'creating' monsters to fight monsters theme.

[Tech]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I know they are cliched to the point of, well, being a cliche, but every campaign needs vampires. Here's my problem.

 

I was writing up a classic cinematic vampire as a hero with all the cliche powers (turning into mist, wall-crawling, changing into a bat and wolf etc.). In the course of doing so I realized that vampires, well, kind of suck. I couldn't see a classic Dracula-type character as having more than a 30 STR, 35 tops, giving him a whole 6d6 or 7d6 attack.

 

Any ideas as how to ramp up a vampire so as to make them competitive with superheroes, without leaving the "classic cinematic vampire" model behind?

 

A vampire by it's nature is dead. It's being dead that makes it so difficult to battle since it can't be 'killed' as a living being would. I've heard some others say 'well, i'm going to change things so my vampire can stay in the daylight, not drink blood, etc etc'. It's no longer a vampire but is instead vampire-like. Vampires are feared since they kill others to make other vampires - in effect, murder. Yeah, you can make a vampire up in a super campaign but you won't find one as a super in mine. I agree with Kirby - I'm tired of them and a vampire-hero just rubs me the wrong way.

 

Still, if you want to create one, I'd suggest looking at what some of the others said.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

There is an interesting 5E vampire writeup in Digital Hero #6 for a vampiric assassin called Angelina. Besides vampire powers she has considerable combat skill and employs pretty formidable weapons, so overall she's quite a dangerous customer. The article includes a template for a basic vampire of her type, which is available as a free sample from the article which you can read here. This template is clearly inspired by the vampires from White Wolf's Vampire game setting, and so features special powers derived from the vampire's recent consumption of blood.

 

The most powerful "classic" vampire I've seen written up for Champions was Baron Jean De'Lear, from The Mutant File. The Baron was many centuries old and had acquired a diverse and formidable array of Skills and other abilities and assets (he came out to over 900 points IIRC). His abilities were those of the Stokeresque gothic vampire, and while he was stronger in most areas than the kind of vampire you describe the difference wasn't extreme: STR 50, SPD 6, 14d6 Mind Control, and the like. It's only when all his attributes are considered as a whole that he appears truly formidable.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

hmm a vampire would seem to fit the brawler style character lower level attacks but lots of defensive abilities add in some combat skills immortality gives you lots of opportunities to train in different martial arts .

 

one interesting wrinkle would be the superhero who had powers before being bitten I'm thinking Sargent states in jack staff or the avengers in one of the exiles universes the combination of the super soldier serum and vampirism is quite interesting i certainly enjoyed working on the Midnight Avenger a silver avenger bitten by a vampire and now chief monster hunter for PRIMUS

[assault]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I'm not terribly impressed by vampires as heroes. They are possible, but...

 

As villains, the thing to consider is their immortality. Check out other immortal villains like Vandal Savage, Ra's Al Ghul and so on. Vampires can do everything they do.

 

You know all those Nazi super-science toys that went missing at the end of WWII? Guess who's got them...

 

If you want to go with the hero vamp, and don't want to go overboard on his strength, just throw in a bit of martial arts. Pretty much any experienced fighter can justify a Martial Strike and/or an Offensive Strike.

 

Most of the other monster characters would probably work better at lower power levels, but there's scope for pushing the threshold. "Loose adaptations" work fine. For example: the critter that inspired the Frankenstein legend might have been a superhumanly powerful golem or something of the sort. It might have even been some kind of android...

[wcw43921]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I would consider the possibility of borrowing from that Other Game, where vampires don't drink blood, but drain their victim's life force (levels) by touch alone.

 

I would make your vampire a great big sink--STR and DEX Drains to take those hoity-toity superpowered vampire slayers down a couple of notches, CON and BODY Drains for the evening feast (with Linked Healing and Aid, Self Only, to simulate the feeding) and INT, EGO and PRE Drainsto create all those mindless, bug-eating slaves. Ranged END and STUN drains slow down the target so the vampire can close to Zero Range.

 

As for other vampiric powers, I remember Bram Stoker writing that Dracula had the "strength of hand of twenty men." That's pretty darn strong in my book, but I suppose he could be stronger. Then there's the ability to shapeshift into a bat or wolf, or dissolve into mist--no reason why he couldn't assume other forms as well, maybe even other human forms. There is also the ability to command bats and wolves, as well as other "creatures of the night"--that could include insects, worms, rats, wild dogs, feral cats, and some birds. (Piegons are "rats with wings," aren't they?) He could form an army of such creatures on short order.

 

You could also give him Flight if he needs to get away in a hurry--call it "Riding The Night Winds." He could also summon a fog to cover his escape, or even thunderstorms to give him the advantage in battle.

 

I hope you find my suggestions useful.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

 

As for other vampiric powers, I remember Bram Stoker writing that Dracula had the "strength of hand of twenty men." That's pretty darn strong in my book, but I suppose he could be stronger.

About a 32 Str.

You could also give him Flight if he needs to get away in a hurry--call it "Riding The Night Winds." He could also summon a fog to cover his escape, or even thunderstorms to give him the advantage in battle.

Clinging is also a classic Vampire movement power

[Captain Emu]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I'm coming in late here but I'm not seeing why a classic vampire has to be weak. Almost every comic has thrown Dracula out there and he's usually able to go toe to toe with that universe's best. It really comes down to scaling them for superhero comics. They also tend to manifest amazing abilities when faced with comic book powers.

 

I know in several comic universes vampires and lycanthropes for that matter are extremely powerful and sometimes are the arch-nemesis for super teams. If I had to make any suggestions it would be to not let yourself be hemmed in by the classic interpretation of a particular monster. Use that as a base and then go "Super".

 

Also, appologize if this has already been said. Coming into a threat late I tend to skim through it.

[Kirby]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

As for other vampiric powers' date=' I remember Bram Stoker writing that Dracula had the "strength of hand of twenty men." That's pretty darn strong in my book, but I suppose he could be stronger.[/quote']

About a 32 Str.

From The Ultimate Brick, pg. 7, 11:

# men = # STR - Lift(kg) - Example (if it has a + after it, that means there was no example given, so I gave the preceding example on the list)

2 men = 15 STR - 200 - Piano, motorcycle, etc.

3 men = 18 STR - 300 - Medium floor safe

4 men = 20 STR - 400 - Chariot, grizzly bear

5 men = 21 STR - 467 - Chariot+, grizzly bear+

10 men = 26 STR - 933 - Liberty Bell

15 men = 29 STR - 1,400 - Two horses+

20 men = 31 STR - 1,867 - average wooden telephone pole

25 men = 33 STR - 2,400 - large civilian helicopter

30 men = 34 STR - 2,800 - small military helicopter

40 men = 36 STR - 3,733 - small elephant+

50 men = 38 STR - 4,800 - large military helicopter

100 men = 43 STR - 9,600 - buiness jet, Chinook helicopter

 

YMMV

[sinanju]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I'm not terribly impressed by vampires as heroes. They are possible, but...

 

As villains, the thing to consider is their immortality. Check out other immortal villains like Vandal Savage, Ra's Al Ghul and so on. Vampires can do everything they do.

 

You know all those Nazi super-science toys that went missing at the end of WWII? Guess who's got them...

 

...and why is it that we never see Powered Armor Man out of his armor? Is he protecting a secret identity? Or is he wearing that armor (with the high-tech visual sensors (no mere window or eye slits in HIS armor) to protect him from the sun? Maybe the armor doesn't amplify his strength at all. Maybe he's JUST THAT STRONG.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

From The Ultimate Brick, pg. 7, 11:

# men = # STR - Lift(kg) - Example (if it has a + after it, that means there was no example given, so I gave the preceding example on the list)

2 men = 15 STR - 200 - Piano, motorcycle, etc.

3 men = 18 STR - 300 - Medium floor safe

4 men = 20 STR - 400 - Chariot, grizzly bear

5 men = 21 STR - 467 - Chariot+, grizzly bear+

10 men = 26 STR - 933 - Liberty Bell

15 men = 29 STR - 1,400 - Two horses+

20 men = 31 STR - 1,867 - average wooden telephone pole

25 men = 33 STR - 2,400 - large civilian helicopter

30 men = 34 STR - 2,800 - small military helicopter

40 men = 36 STR - 3,733 - small elephant+

50 men = 38 STR - 4,800 - large military helicopter

100 men = 43 STR - 9,600 - buiness jet, Chinook helicopter

 

YMMV

I don't have TUB, nor was I referencing a book.

Off by 1 point I can live with..note the "about"

[Twilight]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I'm coming in late here but I'm not seeing why a classic vampire has to be weak. Almost every comic has thrown Dracula out there and he's usually able to go toe to toe with that universe's best. It really comes down to scaling them for superhero comics. They also tend to manifest amazing abilities when faced with comic book powers.

 

I know in several comic universes vampires and lycanthropes for that matter are extremely powerful and sometimes are the arch-nemesis for super teams. If I had to make any suggestions it would be to not let yourself be hemmed in by the classic interpretation of a particular monster. Use that as a base and then go "Super".

 

Also, appologize if this has already been said. Coming into a threat late I tend to skim through it.

 

In Marvel Comics Dracula was strong enough to block one of Collosus' punches with one hand and didn't look like he required a whole lot of effort to get the job done. He also fought the entire X-Men by himself and, if I recall correctly, nearly defeated them until Nightcrawler pull the faith card and used a cross [which Wolverine previously tried and failed to do.] He also nearly killed Dr. Strange, fought the Avengers [in order to steal the Darkhold which was at Avenger's Mansion] and even encountered Thor and Silver Surfer. Sure he NORMALLY encountered the more street level types but he was by no means weak.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

I would actually recommend the GURPS book Blood Types, as it'd be easily convertable and had some great ideas in it

[David Johnston]

Re: Vampires in Supers Setting

 

The first thing to remember about the typical vampire is that in the end more than anything else, he's a mentalist. His real speciality is mind control So if his physical strength is not so impressive by the standard of bricks...well just consider how impressive it is by the standard of mentalists to put it in perspective. There is of course, no reason why a vampire can't know martial arts if he's more physically inclined. Heck, martial arts were part of the standard Buffy vampire package...which helped compensate for the fact that they almost all devoid of any form of vampire mind control power.