What Have You Watched Recently?

[Michael Hopcroft]

18 minutes ago, Matt the Bruins said:

Maybe there are enough women, people of color, and LGBT subscribers that including programming geared toward them is a net gain over the loss of angry white men who cancel when they see anyone not exactly like them?

The sort of people who complain about Meilin Lee of Turning Red being "unrelatable" because she's a Chinese-Canadian girl facing puberty in all its red, furry glory? 

 

My mother (age 78) found Mei very relatable. The drawings in the journal, the obsession with 4-Town, the weight of parental expectations — all of these are things she experienced, growing up and raising two daughters who turned out a lot better than I did. Turning Red reminds us that all mothers were once teenage girls, just as Up reminded us that everyone who is old now was once young.

 

[Grailknight]

1 hour ago, Matt the Bruins said:

Maybe there are enough women, people of color, and LGBT subscribers that including programming geared toward them is a net gain over the loss of angry white men who cancel when they see anyone not exactly like them?

 

It's a fine line and the studios have been coming down on the side of inclusiveness to the detriment of the source material. The original authors targeted a certain audience and made material with enough appeal to get adapted. Don't change their works to appeal to a different audience, make quality works for that audience worthy of adaptation. Case in point:

 

I love the Wheel of Time books and have reread the series  at least 3 times. I watched the first three episodes and almost stopped. I have no problems with the diversification of the Two Rivers. That was treated as a matter of course and not a point of emphasis. But I got 15 minutes of Egwene's coming of age, that is completely original material, Mat's family suddenly being poor(when they are famous horse breeders) and Perrin being married instead of an apprentice.  The coming of age thing is especially egregious because it has no bearing on any part of Egwene's later character arcs and did little to make Nynaeve relatable. It was there just to give women a bigger role when that isn't necessary as they'll get plenty of star turn later. It's almost as if the writer's haven't read the books beyond a cliff notes version.

 

Sometimes I wish I was given oversight on these projects. My first operating principle would be " You can change the source material when you show me your stack of 14 bestsellers that outsold the author's. If you can't go back and write the script so it matches the book. Or present your personal magnum opus to us and we'll see if it gets green-lit (and then we'll change it because we can, these are improvements)." 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

I like TV Nynaeve better than book Nynaeve. The actress sells her personality better than it comes across in the books. She seems a lot less shrill and more just stubborn and protective of her people.

 

The show's not bad, as long as you've forgotten the plot of the books. 😁

[mattingly]

The Court Jester. It's been a few years since I've seen it. Still amazing.

 

[archer]

16 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

It's a fine line and the studios have been coming down on the side of inclusiveness to the detriment of the source material. The original authors targeted a certain audience and made material with enough appeal to get adapted. Don't change their works to appeal to a different audience, make quality works for that audience worthy of adaptation. Case in point:

 

I love the Wheel of Time books and have reread the series  at least 3 times. I watched the first three episodes and almost stopped. I have no problems with the diversification of the Two Rivers. That was treated as a matter of course and not a point of emphasis. But I got 15 minutes of Egwene's coming of age, that is completely original material, Mat's family suddenly being poor(when they are famous horse breeders) and Perrin being married instead of an apprentice.  The coming of age thing is especially egregious because it has no bearing on any part of Egwene's later character arcs and did little to make Nynaeve relatable. It was there just to give women a bigger role when that isn't necessary as they'll get plenty of star turn later. It's almost as if the writer's haven't read the books beyond a cliff notes version.

13 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

I like TV Nynaeve better than book Nynaeve. The actress sells her personality better than it comes across in the books. She seems a lot less shrill and more just stubborn and protective of her people.

 

The show's not bad, as long as you've forgotten the plot of the books. 😁

 

 

I'll admit that I read the first and maybe second Wheel of Time books so long ago that I remember nothing other than the title and that there was an order of women called "Aes Sedai" but nothing about their beliefs or what they did.

 

Wasting 15 minutes on Egwene's coming of age is a criminal waste in a movie or limited series. But in an on-going series, not so much. And the secretive rite for women only did nicely set up the idea that "women have power of their own in this society" so that when the Aes Sedai were introduced as an independently powerful faction, it wasn't jarring for a viewer who might have otherwise been expecting a strictly medieval society.

 

Perrin being married instead of only an apprentice set him up for being more broken after they left the village. And helped explain why he wasn't stepping forward to being the leader of the group and the hero of the beginning of the story.

 

Mat being poor rather than rich helped him be a more sympathetic figure to the audience. He's wanting to get back to his crappy life in order to protect his siblings, not wanting to get back to his cushy lifestyle. So the audience feels sympathy when he's cursed and more understanding when he's not willing to walk into a 75% certain death.

 

The diversification of Two Rivers is no different than the diversification of most places when they go from book to a visual medium. Most authors don't have time to describe the race, sex, age, and appearance of each background character in the book. He describes the ones who are important to the story and relies on the readers to fill in the rest from their imagination.

 

I personally picture a small isolated village in fantasy settings to be all of one race. Because if you mix a Caucasian bunch, with groups of Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Asians, and blacks in the same village, after a ten generations, there's not going to be neatly divided racial groups existing in the small isolated village anymore.  

 

I know that's not appealing from a marketing standpoint because the primary goal of marketing a show isn't to show an audience how genetics works in real life. So I cut a fantasy show a lot of slack on casting choices and don't try to insist on realism.  

 

On the other hand, there's cowboys in westerns. A large percentage of cowboys in real life were blacks and Mexicans. For a western made today, I'd expect that realism to be reflected in casting choices (especially for background characters) rather than the entire cowboy cast being white.

[Spence]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:36 PM, Grailknight said:

 

It's a fine line and the studios have been coming down on the side of inclusiveness to the detriment of the source material. The original authors targeted a certain audience and made material with enough appeal to get adapted. Don't change their works to appeal to a different audience, make quality works for that audience worthy of adaptation. Case in point:

 

I love the Wheel of Time books and have reread the series  at least 3 times. I watched the first three episodes and almost stopped. I have no problems with the diversification of the Two Rivers. That was treated as a matter of course and not a point of emphasis. But I got 15 minutes of Egwene's coming of age, that is completely original material, Mat's family suddenly being poor(when they are famous horse breeders) and Perrin being married instead of an apprentice.  The coming of age thing is especially egregious because it has no bearing on any part of Egwene's later character arcs and did little to make Nynaeve relatable. It was there just to give women a bigger role when that isn't necessary as they'll get plenty of star turn later. It's almost as if the writer's haven't read the books beyond a cliff notes version.

 

Sometimes I wish I was given oversight on these projects. My first operating principle would be " You can change the source material when you show me your stack of 14 bestsellers that outsold the author's. If you can't go back and write the script so it matches the book. Or present your personal magnum opus to us and we'll see if it gets green-lit (and then we'll change it because we can, these are improvements)." 

 

 

I never actually liked Wheel of Time so I really didn't care one way or another. 

I am mostly referring to the current trend of changing things that literally have no sense of value for the story or that work directly against the story for other reason than fake virtual signalling. 

 

Lord of the Rings is a specific series of stories written by a man that was painfully precise who very clearly described things in both his published works and correspondence.  The changes are in direct opposition of it all.

 

Halo's Master Chief never had a ethnicity defined.  You never saw his face.  It is the only actual fully "inclusive" property on planet Earth.  And now they are #1 assigning a ethnic group and #2 sidelining the main character to a support role for the a made up token.  

 

Snow White is based on folklore from a specific culture and the characters description is literary in the text, "skin as white as snow".  There are thousands of tales in folklore that represent every group on the planet and yet they are creatively bankrupt or deliberately spiteful to the point they make themselves look like 5 year olds in a tantrum.

 

I am waiting for the remake of the saga of Shaka Zulu, 1816 to 1828.  IN order to ensure diversity and token'ism I look forward to Nandi's casting as a wise White Woman with red hair.  After all, that is how the world looks now  

 

There is nothing wrong with changing a character if it is done with some degree of intelligence and is plausible.  

 

Nick Fury in the Marvel Movies is a brilliant example of how to do it.

 

Jarl Haakon in Vikings Valhalla may have been completely unnecessary and a major stretch.  But!  They put together a plausible reason and found an actress that could pull it off, which made it work.  

 

For Cowboy Bebop I didn't think the casting or costuming was bad at all.  Real life is different than animation.  If the story had stayed on track and not inserted gratuitous sex scenes (of any kind) and other garbage it could have succeeded.  The first Captain America made many changes but stayed true to the story and was a hit.

 

If a property doesn't do what you want it to, find another property.  Don't turn out half a$$ flops and then cry that the world is an 'ist when the actual customers reject it because it was poorly written.

 

Next they will be trying to say that Black Panther was a success despite all the 'ists, rather than the truth that it was a damn good movie and pretty much everyone enjoyed it.

 

 

[Grailknight]

23 hours ago, archer said:

 

I'll admit that I read the first and maybe second Wheel of Time books so long ago that I remember nothing other than the title and that there was an order of women called "Aes Sedai" but nothing about their beliefs or what they did.

 

Wasting 15 minutes on Egwene's coming of age is a criminal waste in a movie or limited series. But in an on-going series, not so much. And the secretive rite for women only did nicely set up the idea that "women have power of their own in this society" so that when the Aes Sedai were introduced as an independently powerful faction, it wasn't jarring for a viewer who might have otherwise been expecting a strictly medieval society.

 

But it doesn't show that women have power, just that they have some colorful coming of age rites. If you wanted to show the power of women in that society , the focus should have been on Nynaeve.

 

23 hours ago, archer said:

 

Perrin being married instead of only an apprentice set him up for being more broken after they left the village. And helped explain why he wasn't stepping forward to being the leader of the group and the hero of the beginning of the story.

 

A great deal of Perrin's later arcs, hinge on his inexperience with women as part of his character. Widowed Perrin would have much different reactions to Faile  and Berelain.

 

23 hours ago, archer said:

 

Mat being poor rather than rich helped him be a more sympathetic figure to the audience. He's wanting to get back to his crappy life in order to protect his siblings, not wanting to get back to his cushy lifestyle. So the audience feels sympathy when he's cursed and more understanding when he's not willing to walk into a 75% certain death.

 

But Mat isn't wealthy per se just slightly  above the average villager. And he is the only one of the Two Rivers folk who want  to see the world and never go back(although he is willing to when they are endangered).

 

23 hours ago, archer said:

 

The diversification of Two Rivers is no different than the diversification of most places when they go from book to a visual medium. Most authors don't have time to describe the race, sex, age, and appearance of each background character in the book. He describes the ones who are important to the story and relies on the readers to fill in the rest from their imagination.

 

I personally picture a small isolated village in fantasy settings to be all of one race. Because if you mix a Caucasian bunch, with groups of Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Asians, and blacks in the same village, after a ten generations, there's not going to be neatly divided racial groups existing in the small isolated village anymore.  

 

I know that's not appealing from a marketing standpoint because the primary goal of marketing a show isn't to show an audience how genetics works in real life. So I cut a fantasy show a lot of slack on casting choices and don't try to insist on realism.  

 

On the other hand, there's cowboys in westerns. A large percentage of cowboys in real life were blacks and Mexicans. For a western made today, I'd expect that realism to be reflected in casting choices (especially for background characters) rather than the entire cowboy cast being white.

 

I have no issues with the diversification. There is some cultural exchange with the rest of the world. I just wonder how they'll handle it if we make to the books with the Seanchan who were diverse in the books.

[Bazza]

3 hours ago, Spence said:

 

I never actually liked Wheel of Time so I really didn't care one way or another. 

I am mostly referring to the current trend of changing things that literally have no sense of value for the story or that work directly against the story for other reason than fake virtual signalling. 

 

Lord of the Rings is a specific series of stories written by a man that was painfully precise who very clearly described things in both his published works and correspondence.  The changes are in direct opposition of it all.

 

Halo's Master Chief never had a ethnicity defined.  You never saw his face.  It is the only actual fully "inclusive" property on planet Earth.  And now they are #1 assigning a ethnic group and #2 sidelining the main character to a support role for the a made up token.  

 

Snow White is based on folklore from a specific culture and the characters description is literary in the text, "skin as white as snow".  There are thousands of tales in folklore that represent every group on the planet and yet they are creatively bankrupt or deliberately spiteful to the point they make themselves look like 5 year olds in a tantrum.

 

I am waiting for the remake of the saga of Shaka Zulu, 1816 to 1828.  IN order to ensure diversity and token'ism I look forward to Nandi's casting as a wise White Woman with red hair.  After all, that is how the world looks now  

 

There is nothing wrong with changing a character if it is done with some degree of intelligence and is plausible.  

 

Nick Fury in the Marvel Movies is a brilliant example of how to do it.

 

Jarl Haakon in Vikings Valhalla may have been completely unnecessary and a major stretch.  But!  They put together a plausible reason and found an actress that could pull it off, which made it work.  

 

For Cowboy Bebop I didn't think the casting or costuming was bad at all.  Real life is different than animation.  If the story had stayed on track and not inserted gratuitous sex scenes (of any kind) and other garbage it could have succeeded.  The first Captain America made many changes but stayed true to the story and was a hit.

 

If a property doesn't do what you want it to, find another property.  Don't turn out half a$$ flops and then cry that the world is an 'ist when the actual customers reject it because it was poorly written.

 

Next they will be trying to say that Black Panther was a success despite all the 'ists, rather than the truth that it was a damn good movie and pretty much everyone enjoyed it.

 

 

Further examples one way or the other:

 

[Ternaugh]

Is It Cake? Contestants create cakes that look like certain objects, and it's up to the judges to determine which objects are decoys, and which one is cake. (Netflix)

 

Daredevil Season 1: Re-watching this series, now on Disney+. 

 

Wargames: This is becoming something of a nostalgia watch for me, and it's definitely one that I would guess most millennials and generation Z wouldn't fully understand or be all that interested in watching. For me, though, it brings back memories of early microcomputers and Cold War fears. And Ally Sheedy is nice, too. (Amazon Prime)

[archer]

I'd be watching Daredevil but the new automatic child safety "feature" which Disney+ suddenly imposed has me baffled as to how to get around it.

 

With other child safety things I've seen, a parent has to deliberately set it and there were clear instructions on how to turn the feature off and on.

 

Disney+ apparently went the other direction, making it automatically on and no instructions on what to do to turn it off.

 

I'm not having a great "mental health" week from a mental health standpoint. I'm also having some fairly serious memory issues, beyond what I normally have.

 

I'm not up to dealing with Disney customer service when I'm dealing with a doctor's office refusing to write me refills on medications I've been on for 20+ years, another doctor's office that's being uncooperative, an uncooperative insurance company, a landline phone which decided to stop working, and about ten prescriptions whose refill authorizations expired a few days before the insurance company would authorize refilling them (that's from a different doctor than the office which is refusing to write refills on four other medications).

 

I'd really find Daredevil punching some bad guy's face into hamburger...very soothing right now.

[Ternaugh]

1 hour ago, archer said:

I'd be watching Daredevil but the new automatic child safety "feature" which Disney+ suddenly imposed has me baffled as to how to get around it.

 

With other child safety things I've seen, a parent has to deliberately set it and there were clear instructions on how to turn the feature off and on.

 

Disney+ apparently went the other direction, making it automatically on and no instructions on what to do to turn it off.

 

I'm not having a great "mental health" week from a mental health standpoint. I'm also having some fairly serious memory issues, beyond what I normally have.

 

I'm not up to dealing with Disney customer service when I'm dealing with a doctor's office refusing to write me refills on medications I've been on for 20+ years, another doctor's office that's being uncooperative, an uncooperative insurance company, a landline phone which decided to stop working, and about ten prescriptions whose refill authorizations expired a few days before the insurance company would authorize refilling them (that's from a different doctor than the office which is refusing to write refills on four other medications).

 

I'd really find Daredevil punching some bad guy's face into hamburger...very soothing right now.

 

From a browser, launch Disney+

Hover over your profile badge in the upper-right to reveal the drop-down menu.

Select Edit Profile, and then the profile you want to edit

Parental Controls should be near the bottom, select Content Rating and enter in your account password.

Select content level and press Save. You'll want to select TV-MA to be able to watch Daredevil.

[Joe Walsh]

We tried to watch The French Dispatch, a comedy movie on HBO Max. It started promisingly, but just got worse and worse as it went on. In a rare move, we gave up with about 30 minutes left.

 

Episode 7 of Station Eleven finally picked up where the pilot episode left off. It was a fine episode. Too bad it was followed by episode 8, which was just more drek like most of this series.

 

Deadwood continues to gather steam through episodes 7 and 8 of the first season, while The Righteous Gemstones blew the roof off with episode 8 (can't wait to see Ep 9 next weekend).

 

[Ternaugh]

Death on the Nile: Kenneth Branagh gives us another go at Poirot, but the best part of the story is the side-plot of his moustache*. I'd recommend watching the Peter Ustinov version instead. (Hulu, also on HBOmax)

 

 

 

*I wish I was kidding.

[Joe Walsh]

The first episode of Moon Knight shows promise.

[mattingly]

Moon Knight is the show I've been looking forward to the most, since they first announced the lineup several years ago!

 

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:04 PM, GM Joe said:

We tried to watch The French Dispatch, a comedy movie on HBO Max. It started promisingly, but just got worse and worse as it went on. In a rare move, we gave up with about 30 minutes left.

 

I had a very tough time with that one. I wanted to give up at 30, too, but came back and finished it because I normally love Wes Anderson. It took me three tries. Not one I can recommend. 

[Matt the Bruins]

Ultraviolet, a late 90s BBC series starring Idris Elba and Jack Davenport that's part police procedural, part political thriller, part vampire horror in which the word "vampire" is never actually spoken. It holds up remarkably well more than two decades later.

[Ternaugh]

Peacemaker: I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. (HBOmax)

 

Hudson Hawk: Is it a bad movie? Yup. But if you approach it as if it were a Road movie with swearing and violence, it's not too bad. (Netflix)

[pinecone]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:26 PM, Matt the Bruins said:

Maybe there are enough women, people of color, and LGBT subscribers that including programming geared toward them is a net gain over the loss of angry white men who cancel when they see anyone not exactly like them?

So far that has not proven to be the case.

[pinecone]

Just watched Moon Knight. Not too bad. It is the story line I like the least (the multi-personalities) But the acting is top shelf, and the production value as well. Too much for youngsters, but a solid watch.

[Starlord]

I enjoyed the first episode.

[slikmar]

51 minutes ago, pinecone said:

Just watched Moon Knight. Not too bad. It is the story line I like the least (the multi-personalities) But the acting is top shelf, and the production value as well. Too much for youngsters, but a solid watch.

I liked that storyline because I always thought that plus the mysticism they retconned in separated him from being a total Batman clone (which he was when he started). I haven't seen it, but I really do hope they play up the mystic Fist of Konshu side, with maybe seeing a Werewolf by Night appearance.

[Ternaugh]

Undercover Blues: Either you like it, or you don't. I happen to like it. (DVD)

[pinecone]

2 hours ago, slikmar said:

I liked that storyline because I always thought that plus the mysticism they retconned in separated him from being a total Batman clone (which he was when he started). I haven't seen it, but I really do hope they play up the mystic Fist of Konshu side, with maybe seeing a Werewolf by Night appearance.

Yeah, he throws down on a Monster/Demon the first time we see the costume, so you should be happy with it.

[Joe Walsh]

Watched the next-to-last episode of Station Eleven. It was terrible. Looking forward to when the last episode is over.