The Flash

[BoloOfEarth]

Caitlin doesn't know what a singularity is? Oh my god, I don't even feel bad spoiling that because its better left ignored for your brain canon. She's not a sci-fi nerd, no big, but she is a physicist, she should know this ###.

 

I don't think she's a physicist - I've always thought of her as a bio-scientist, more an MD than an engineer type.  She's the Simmons to Cisco's Fitz.  That said, she was working at a particle accelerator and a singularity is the sort of thing you'd think would have been mentioned at some point in the past, at least in passing.  Asking that question really should have been handed off to one of the non-STAR Labs people.

 

Meta-thinking, they need someone to ask questions like that for the audience's sake, and having it always be Joe would get tedious.

[Hermit]

I think she needs more quality screen time for sure. She's been given short shrift. As for the secret ID, it just occurred to me that she found out after Captain Cold . . . yikes.

 

I don't think the "Do it for me Barry" line really had anything to do with the romantic aspect. They're also best of friends and foster brother/sister. The reason she was so tenacious about the blog, despite the danger, was to prove that Barry's story about his mother's murder wasn't crazy, that there really was weird stuff going on. She was willing to put her life on the line for him before romance came into the picture.

 

I think they've done a good job lining up her character traits. If you just did a character profile on her on a sheet of paper, or wanted to write her psych limits up for Hero, you'd find a good balance of positive and negative traits to work with. However, I think there has been such a focus on both negative traits and negative reactions/behavior from her, that the good traits haven't been able to shine through. I'm hoping now that she's in the "in" group, we'll see more of her good side.

Agreed on the short shift, period. She shouldn't be the star of the show, but she should be shown more than she is and in more ways than 'CW love interest'

 

And I hope you're right about a better focus on her in the future. I really don't hate the character, like I said, I see a good and loving person in there, but the writers aren't given that part of her as much sunlight as I wish.

[Pattern Ghost]

It just occurred to me: One big problem with Iris's characterization is Joe. I love the Joe/Barry chemistry and their interactions, but they've pretty much replaced Iris's role as confidante with Joe. Hopefully, we'll see a shift there as Barry and Iris's relationship develops.

[Hermit]

I don't think she's a physicist - I've always thought of her as a bio-scientist, more an MD than an engineer type.  She's the Simmons to Cisco's Fitz.  That said, she was working at a particle accelerator and a singularity is the sort of thing you'd think would have been mentioned at some point in the past, at least in passing.  Asking that question really should have been handed off to one of the non-STAR Labs people.

 

Meta-thinking, they need someone to ask questions like that for the audience's sake, and having it always be Joe would get tedious.

 

Fair enough about her speciality

but yikes, that line in her mouth really threw me.

[Pattern Ghost]

Yeah, they had three non-scientists they could have given that line to.

 

Also . . .

 

 

 

I was thinking it was a huge waste to get rid of Tom Cavanagh. He was great as Wells/Thawne.

 

On the up side, Eddie erasing Thawne means Wells wasn't murdered. (And neither was Nora . . .) So Cavanagh could be back next season as Wells. I'll miss his evil smirks, but would still welcome him back as non-evil Wells.

Of course, Thawne could be back, too. But no reason for him to disguise himself as Wells.

 

On the third hand, if the status quo is maintained somehow, there's no reason for Wells to be around.

 

Ah .  .  . a pox on time travel!

 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

Ohh, just had another thought:

 

 

 

 

Eddie has no reason to off himself if Eobard doesn't exist, therefore Eddie doesn't off himself . . .creating a reverse grandfather paradox . . .

 

And maybe a way of correcting for the reverse grandfather paradox is making Eddie exist again AND become the new Reverse Flash.

 

 

 

[FrankL]

I liked that scene. First, she does the unexpected. Instead of passively accepting the "for your own good" line, she gets angry, and justifiably so. She's a grown woman and doesn't like being treated like a child. She clearly has a sore spot about being lied to, and clearly has a bit of a temper. Oh, but she's a woman, so that temper is catty, right? ("...then the claws come out.") Bull. She has every right to be angry, and every right to express that anger. So, she takes a bit of her own agency back and lays down the ground rules for the relationship -- with everybody. Eddy gets it, Joe gets it, Barry gets it. Everyone gets the Wrath of Iris . . . and they deserve it.

 

I agree that she has a right to be angry and to express it. The combo of acting all nice and calm before expressing such anger is when my dislike of Iris came to the fore. Eddie, standing in front of her, reading her body language, appeared to think she was accepting Barry's reasons.

 

If you're angry about something with someone, don't act in such a way as to deliberately make them think everything is ok.

[Pattern Ghost]

She left him hanging for a few seconds. Maye a bit spiteful, but hardly damning. She was also shown to regret what she did when angry several times. Kind of like a real person.

 

I do think it's fair to say that you don't like her. She's certainly been shown to have enough flaws for people to make that call. The spitefulness she seems to show sometimes can definitely be offputting. I think the good traits outweigh it, and hope that they're giving her some negatives in the interest of character growth.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I agree that the viewer really hasn't been given enough reason to see why Barry likes Iris so much, the effort to make her deep and dramatically interesting has been done at the expense of making her likable and someone he'd honestly love rather than seem to cling to because he grew up with her.

[薔薇語]

I liked that scene. First, she does the unexpected. Instead of passively accepting the "for your own good" line, she gets angry, and justifiably so. ...

 

I notice there are a number of posts following this and I haven't gotten to reading those yet, but I wanted to touch on this real quick. I think you, FrankL and I are all talking about a different scene. As I recall there are two scenes where Iris flips. The first, the one I think FrankL and I are talking about is when Barry talks with her about how tough Eddie's job is and how he is most certainly not cheating on her (which seemed to be what she was thinking). Rather than accept the 'perfectly reasonable' explanation that sometimes cops deal with stuff that leave them with serious emotional baggage, she just lays into Eddie. That was rude. 

 

There is a later scene where she learns that everyone has lied to her and she gets upset and response with that anger: that was not rude. 

 

La Rose. 

[薔薇語]

It just occurred to me: One big problem with Iris's characterization is Joe. I love the Joe/Barry chemistry and their interactions, but they've pretty much replaced Iris's role as confidante with Joe. Hopefully, we'll see a shift there as Barry and Iris's relationship develops.

 

 

So I know that in the comics Barry and Iris are a thing. But I in no way want that from this show. And I don't say that out of some dislike for Iris - I just don't like the relationship of Iris and Barry. She should be with an Eddie or someone. Barry should be with someone who isn't Iris. And under NO circumstances should Iris become the confidant  of Barry and replace her father. I would much rather see that character killed off than lose the Barry-Joe conversations. 

 

La Rose. 

[zslane]

I liked almost every main character on the show, even when the writers failed them. Except for Eddie. I never really warmed up to him. I never had a problem with Iris, per se, I just felt like she had no meaningful role to play. She was little more than a dramatic accessory. Hopefully they'll fix that for season two.

 

Barry, Joe, and Wells were the standouts, for sure. I liked Caitlin, and I even grew to really like Cisco. The villains tended to be a bit lame, but Snart was the best of them all, and of course Grodd was simply awesome. Overall I give the show a B, and if it wasn't for the atrocious time travel stuff, I would probably give it a solid A-.

[薔薇語]

Okay, I found the scene that I am talking about when I talked about Iris earlier. It was part of Episode 18. I thought she yelled at him but it was just the classic "100% or nothing" statement. 

 

Okay, upon further thought, I actually do not like the character. Not "meh" but actually actively dislike her. The more I reflect on Hermit's comments about her being a bit spoiled, the more I find myself in agreement. 

The one way relationship with Eddie. The man always tried to be upfront and honest with her and she never put real trust in him. She even thought he was actually cheating on her when her only reason was that he wasn't talking as much as before. When confronted with what she even claimed to be a good reason from her best friend, she still demanded more from poor Eddie. Eddie most certainly deserves far better than Iris. 

Then there is how she seems to think and treat Barry as hers. The most obvious example was when she sabotaged Barry's perfectly good and healthy relationship. When Barry asked her to drop the website issue and the Flash did too, she kept going. Because, by good god absolutely 'no one is going to tell ME what to do'. That alone is a good reason to keep her out of the loop - she isn't exactly earning trust when she stubbornly ignores the warnings and requests of her father, best friend, and savior.
 

In the alternate timeline she was all too eager to dump a perfectly good man to chase after Barry just because he was the flash. Shallow much? 

So, I actually really do not like that character. Maybe Season II will change that but I feel about her much the same as I feel about Fish Mooney now. But at least Fish is out of the picture. 

 

La Rose. 

[Pattern Ghost]

I notice there are a number of posts following this and I haven't gotten to reading those yet, but I wanted to touch on this real quick. I think you, FrankL and I are all talking about a different scene. As I recall there are two scenes where Iris flips. The first, the one I think FrankL and I are talking about is when Barry talks with her about how tough Eddie's job is and how he is most certainly not cheating on her (which seemed to be what she was thinking). Rather than accept the 'perfectly reasonable' explanation that sometimes cops deal with stuff that leave them with serious emotional baggage, she just lays into Eddie. That was rude. 

 

There is a later scene where she learns that everyone has lied to her and she gets upset and response with that anger: that was not rude. 

 

La Rose. 

 

We're on the same page. I was speaking of the scene where she lays into Eddie, and doesn't yet know the BIG secret, which was fairly mean of her, but does let us know she has a big problem with being lied to and protected. That comes into play again when she confronts all three over the secret ID thing.

 

And now that I think about the sequence of events, she blows up at Eddie after hearing Barry's confession. She's mad at him for his bad timing and for keeping it from her and frustrated. So, that sets up the blow up with Eddie. And that blow up with Eddie sets up the later blow up about the secret ID. All in all, it's a logical progression, and her building emotions are pretty understandable.

[Pattern Ghost]

So I know that in the comics Barry and Iris are a thing. But I in no way want that from this show. And I don't say that out of some dislike for Iris - I just don't like the relationship of Iris and Barry. She should be with an Eddie or someone. Barry should be with someone who isn't Iris. And under NO circumstances should Iris become the confidant  of Barry and replace her father. I would much rather see that character killed off than lose the Barry-Joe conversations. 

 

La Rose. 

 

We should never lose the Barry/Joe conversations. We just need more Iris/Barry conversations. And Iris/Joe for that matter.

[Pattern Ghost]

OK, going to put comments in the quote section in red b/c new board makes chopping up quotes hard.

 

Okay, I found the scene that I am talking about when I talked about Iris earlier. It was part of Episode 18. I thought she yelled at him but it was just the classic "100% or nothing" statement. 

 

Okay, upon further thought, I actually do not like the character. Not "meh" but actually actively dislike her. The more I reflect on Hermit's comments about her being a bit spoiled, the more I find myself in agreement. 

 

I don't know if she's spoiled. She has the smaller bedroom. Dad dotes on Barry, but we don't see nearly the same attention paid to Iris. Joe raised Barry, and Barry isn't spoiled.

The one way relationship with Eddie. The man always tried to be upfront and honest with her and she never put real trust in him. She even thought he was actually cheating on her when her only reason was that he wasn't talking as much as before. When confronted with what she even claimed to be a good reason from her best friend, she still demanded more from poor Eddie. Eddie most certainly deserves far better than Iris. 

 

I think part of the problem is that Eddie is shown to be a really good guy. He's likable, he's in a pinch because is girlfriend is mad at him for keeping the Flash's secret identity. He finds out Barry has feelings for Iris, then he finds out he's also the Flash. He's got to be feeling pressured, but he takes it all very well. So, we have tons of sympathy for his plight. But Iris doesn't have that point of view. I totally agree that jumping straight to thinking he's cheating is a bit harsh, especially given how long they'd been together at that point, but I'll blame the writers for lack of imagination there. As far as her reaction to Barry trying to smooth the waters over, see the end of post 214 She's already pretty screwed up from Barry's confession at that point.

Then there is how she seems to think and treat Barry as hers. The most obvious example was when she sabotaged Barry's perfectly good and healthy relationship. When Barry asked her to drop the website issue and the Flash did too, she kept going. Because, by good god absolutely 'no one is going to tell ME what to do'. That alone is a good reason to keep her out of the loop - she isn't exactly earning trust when she stubbornly ignores the warnings and requests of her father, best friend, and savior.

 

The relationship interference was simple jealousy. It was petty. No arguments there. She's got some growing up to do. The issue with the blog wasn't simple hard headedness, it was out of love for Barry as pointed out earlier. She believed his story, and wanted everyone else to believe it. Look at the earliest episodes, where Barry is ridiculed for his story about the yellow lightning. The first example is a negative, but not the second.
 

In the alternate timeline she was all too eager to dump a perfectly good man to chase after Barry just because he was the flash. Shallow much? 

 

She was willing to sabotage his relationship with her coworker before she knew. Because she already had feelings for Barry. I'd have to watch the episode again, but I think she made the decision before learning his secret ID.

So, I actually really do not like that character. Maybe Season II will change that but I feel about her much the same as I feel about Fish Mooney now. But at least Fish is out of the picture. 

 

I don't like Fish either.

 

La Rose. 

[Steve]

One little Easter Egg I noticed in the "Rogue Air" episode: the Ferris Air facility was closed after one of their test pilots disappeared. Could Hal Jordan be making an appearance someday?

[Pattern Ghost]

We could hope.

[Iuz the Evil]

 

One little Easter Egg I noticed in the "Rogue Air" episode: the Ferris Air facility was closed after one of their test pilots disappeared. Could Hal Jordan be making an appearance someday?

 

I noticed that too and thought it was cool. I hope they choose to develop that later in the series.

[zslane]

They managed to pull off Grodd, so maybe they can figure out a good way to introduce a galactic peacekepper with a magic ring too. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Pattern Ghost]

I think the main concern would be FX budget. Even though Flash and Arrow have good ratings for CW, it's good ratings for CW. The financials my not work in their favor.

[sinanju]

Okay, so it's probably moot now (what with Thawne's fate) but...

 

"Psst. Hey, Barry. Yeah, you in the red suit."

"Who are you?"

"Never mind. See that man lying on the floor over there? Not too far from your dead mom?"

"You mean my dad?"

"Yeah."
"What about him?"

"Well, it occurs to me that if he were bound and helpless in a roll of duct tape, the authorities would have a much harder time accusing him of the murder."

"..."

"And you're superfast, and you're right here, and you've got a few seconds to spare so--"

Whoooooooooooooooooosh!

"Done."

 

This was LITERALLY the first thought I had when they gave us that shot of Barry's dad lying on the floor unconscious. DUCT TAPE HIM! He can't be the killer if he's a victim! Okay, so he couldn't save mom. But at least dad won't spend twenty years in prison.

[Ternaugh]

What, nobody caught

Killer Frost's appearance when the Flash is running around the accelerator

?

[Pattern Ghost]

I thought someone mentioned it upthread. Saw the glimpse.

[Hermit]

The actress has pretty much stated Killer Frost was on her way , when asked about the next season in an interview about plans for her future she said something like "it gets very cold"

 

She's also admitted exploring the darker side of a sweet heart like Caitlin would be interesting.

 

Oh, and while I don't want Cisco putting on jammies full time next season. I think if this show lasts till third they should really consider it. Folks want more diversity in superheroes? There you go... and the Johns/Gates revamp of the character rally was quite good (one of the better parts of the nu52)