Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Bazza]

‘Spider-Man: Far From Home’ Adds Numan Acar

https://deadline.com/2018/07/spider-man-far-from-home-numan-acar-sony-1202428003/

[RDU Neil]

7 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

To be fair, if they changed those two, they'd get dinged by people for deviating from his comic origin. Also, I didn't see him as sexist so much as just plain arrogant toward everyone.

 

I agree, they would have been dinged, but then, I was hoping they'd take a risk here... and with Iron Fist on the show... and really challenge the colonialist, white savior trope. Iron Fist is my childhood favorite character, but I'd have been happy to see him updated. Not to be, unfortunately.

[Pattern Ghost]

I'd be happy to see Iron Fist just dropped and replaced with a Daughters of the Dragon show. Dropped includes guest appearances, though to be fair he was a bit better in his Luke Cage season 2 appearance.

[RDU Neil]

6 hours ago, Hermit said:

 

I'm of the opinion there is little new under the sun, so I don't mind old tropes drug out, same plots re used IF you can do it with characters I like. Which means I actually LIKE most of the movies as Marvel has done very well with casting and writing for the most part. But if I had to put them in the order of 'my favorites' RIGHT Now..

 

 

 

1) Captain America: First Avenger (I know that is not 'the best' but the bias is strong in this one, I like some periods, and come on! Star Spangled man with a plan!)

2) Captain America Winter Soldier (Okay, this one possibly IS the Best)

3) Avengers (For getting the band together, great cinematic touches...and Puny God!)

4) Guardians of the Galaxy (Music, Mischief, Mayhem)

5) Black Panther (honestly, it's just damn good. Shuri steals the show)

6) Dr. Strange (One of my favorite characters, so bias.  But how he wins is so fitting for the character)

7) Ant Man (Possibly because I did not set my bar high for this it wowed me. Still fun on repeated viewing)

8 ) Captain America Civil War (Should be higher I know)

9)  Iron Man (Props to RDJ! )

10) Ant Man and the Wasp (Still  fresh in my mind..Ignore the after credits and it is fun)

11)  Thor Ragnarok (Would be further up but I didn't like the way the warriors three got blown off with little love)

12)  Avengers Infinity War (AKA the Snapture)

13) Spider Man: Home coming (Keaton has chops. Still a bit unused to Hot Aunt May)

14) Iron Man 3 (Am I the only one who liked the kid? he cracked me up)

15) Thor (Fantastic visuals, got kind of rushed at the end.)

16) Thor: Dark World (Forget the villain and Jane, it's all about Loki and Thor interacting for me)

17) Avengers Age of Ultron ( Another day it might be higher. I like a lot about it, but it's very forgetable until I 'm watching it again)

18) Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (Ditto)

19) Incredible Hulk (No gamma poodle thank god!)

20)  Iron Man 2 (Both Villains failed for me)

 

I'm out of likes, but I would like this list a lot. I think I appreciate more the movies that challenge the status quo a bit more. I guess with Doctor Strange I was hoping for more of the mid-70's Gene Colan era, horror aspect of the character, less of the snappy banter more recent Jason Aaron version (which was fun in the comics, but came across as formulaic in the movie.)

 

There was a time when Thor and Thor: Dark World were much higher on my list... the latter more so. I found in eminently rewatchable. Iron Man 3 is absolutely one of my favorites because of the Tony/kid relationship, the Tony/Rhodey buddy cop movie aspect, and I loved the twist with Mandarin/Trevor. That was brilliant.

 

GotG, the first, I didn't like immediately, because I'm not a fan of comedies, but I appreciated its audacity in turning 3rd rate (10th rate?) characters into a viable, compelling original. By the second movie, it was a cliché parody of itself. Thor: Ragnarok I loved for the same reason of audacity and taking an unexpected path (and I actually find Waititi's absurdism a more refreshing brand of humor) but I agree, they slighted the drama and pathos too much, or it would have been much higher on my list. Homecoming I love because it melds the best, most traditional take on Peter Parker (updated from the 60s of course) with a grounded, gritty, excellent new take on the Vulture that turned out to be one of Marvel's best villains ever. The movie was hilarious in the right moments and sincere and serious in the right moments, and it works. I like it more with each re-watching. (Glad it is on Starz for now.)

 

Iron Man, while I don't rewatch it much, it still was the ultimate challenge to the status quo... the ability to do a good super-hero movie.

[RDU Neil]

7 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

I'd be happy to see Iron Fist just dropped and replaced with a Daughters of the Dragon show. Dropped includes guest appearances, though to be fair he was a bit better in his Luke Cage season 2 appearance.

 

Daughters of the Dragon... yes. Luke Cage Season 2 was good, but Misty Knight: Season 1 was better.  heh. Would love to see more of Misty/Colleen.

 

And he was better in the team-up, though in general I feel they've toned the "super" down too much for Luke and Danny to really be as cool as they should. My one slight of Luke Cage: Season 2 was that they fight scenes were just badly directed. Even Bushmaster's amazing screen magnetism could not save the bland, staged fights. They really need a good fight choreographer and action director for the TV series. Daredevil did it right, but none of the others did.

[Starlord]

I think part of that is Mike Colter is just not good at the choreography and he is very stiff.

[Lord Liaden]

Never had much interest in "favorites" lists. Too much subjectivity. Something one person loves may be exactly what another person hates. I'd rather let everyone like or dislike what they want in peace, as long as they let me do the same.

[RDU Neil]

6 hours ago, Starlord said:

I think part of that is Mike Colter is just not good at the choreography and he is very stiff.

 

True. I agree, but Mustafa Shakir is not, and while he was better, the flat camera work, badly staged "thug just steps into a punch" type of choreography was still there with him. Also, they failed in so many ways to make Luke and Bushmaster really super. When he punched Luke the SFX should have been using a leather wrapped sledge against battleship steel as a the sound effect. They need way more budget on super strength, etc.

 

I keep thinking about this. While I enjoy the street crime, social justice, police procedural pacing of the majority of the show... they need to NOT bring that pace to combat. They need to make it brutal, shocking, fast and kinetic.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Daredevil it felt like the team was taking advantage of the Netflix format and opportunities, but Iron Fist and Luke Cage felt like a network TV show, complete with convenient commercial breaks and low budget action.

[Hermit]

10 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

This is very close to what my list would be.

 

Probably slide First Avenger and Black Panther into the middle range and swap Ant-man/Wasp with Thor.  I really thought it was well-done and is surprisingly underrated by Marvel fans IMO.

 

I liked a LOT about Thor's first half...

 

But the battle with the Destroyer was a bit too abrupt, I was hoping for a throw down there even with a fully restored Thor.

 

The love interest angle wasn't terrible but it didn't sing (And got worse in Dark World).. not enough chemistry with Natalie Portma/Jane Foster

 

But it did give us Loki

 

 

[Old Man]

Shuri gets her own title in October; Jessica Jones 1st issue available digitally now

 

[Pattern Ghost]

6 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

They really need a good fight choreographer and action director for the TV series.

 

Agreed. They seem to have the gist of it, but fail in the execution. Like the big fight with Luke and Danny. That was horribly staged, but they did try some typical superhero fight stuff like a fastball special.

 

4 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

I agree, but Mustafa Shakir is not, and while he was better, the flat camera work, badly staged "thug just steps into a punch" type of choreography was still there with him. Also, they failed in so many ways to make Luke and Bushmaster really super.

 

I'd watch a Bushmaster and Power Man buddy show. In fact, they could just insert Bushmaster into the Netflix MCU in place of Danny and I'd be fine with that. Much better chemistry between the two than between Luke and  Danny.

 

 

 

[RDU Neil]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Daredevil it felt like the team was taking advantage of the Netflix format and opportunities, but Iron Fist and Luke Cage felt like a network TV show, complete with convenient commercial breaks and low budget action.

 

Yeah... the production values for Luke Cage went into using Harlem on location, the music, the Paradise set, etc. It became too much of the "lets sit the characters in a relatively vacant place and have them talk" too often, though... and the action definitely lacked budget. That is really too bad, seeing as this is LUKE CAGE AND IRON FIST... goddammit! Iron Fist was just awful in every way.

[Matt the Bruins]

As long as we're listing our favorites...

 

1. The Avengers (I could pick it apart on technicalities, but this one just hit the zenith of enjoyment for me)
2. Captain America: The First Avenger (I love period pieces, unreservedly altruistic heroes, and Chris Evans as Cap. Plus, the one Marvel romance I buy with no reservations!)
3. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (great political thriller with a side of superheroics)
4. Avengers: Infinity War (most of what I want in cosmic superhero adventures)
5. Black Panther (loved almost everything except the climactic fight, another thing it shared with Wonder Woman)
6. Guardians of the Galaxy (great music and action-adventure marred only by a hopelessly stiff villain)
7. Ant Man (Paul Rudd is just awesome; I liked almost everything except the cartoonish villain)
8. Dr. Strange (worked magic into the MCU far better than I expected; Tilda Swinton was amazing)
9. Thor: Ragnarok (so low because it hamstrung all its dramatic moments with bathos; would have taken my #1 spot if the whole movie were like the trailer)
10. Captain America: Civil War (generally good, entertaining effort with significant narrative problems)
11. Spider-Man: Homecoming (Tom Holland may be the best casting find Marvel has been blessed with)
12. Iron Man
13. Thor (A+ for production design and cinematography, C- for the lead performances)
14. Ant Man & the Wasp (enjoyable, but not fond of 2 of the 3 sets of antagonists)
15. Iron Man 3
16. Age of Ultron (you could see the seams where it was stitched together; Black Widow/Banner romance and Thor exposition made of WTF?)
17. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (some fun and funny moments, but forgettable)
18. Incredible Hulk (should I send my notes to Edward Norton?)
19. Thor: The Dark World (would have been much higher if Mjolnir had flown through Darcy at some point)
20. Iron Man 2 (Black Widow was all I liked about this movie)

Really only my top 4 and bottom 3 are solid though; the rest could shuffle easily depending on what mood I'm in. And I'd generally be happy to rewatch the first 17 on TV.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I can't figure out why people dislike Iron Man 2 so much and like Iron man 3 so much.  I hated 3, it was awful in nearly every way.  2 was great, it felt just like a comic book.

[Grailknight]

My friends are divided into two camps on Iron Man 3, the non readers liked it, the people who followed the comic through the modern Mandarin and Extremis arcs thought it sucked.

[Hermit]

48 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I can't figure out why people dislike Iron Man 2 so much and like Iron man 3 so much.  I hated 3, it was awful in nearly every way.  2 was great, it felt just like a comic book.

 

Honestly, I do not consider any of the movies on my top 20 'bad'. They all have some good in it. On scales of one to ten, almost all of them are a 6  and UP to ten for me. That's partially to Marvel's credit, and partially because I'm a softy.

 

But the whiplash Crimson Dynamo merger didn't work for me, and I felt like Justin Hammer was wasted for a punchline. I can see why they did it, but I just did not like Iron Man 2 as much as others. Iron Man 3 felt to me like it had more heart. (Pun intended) and while I can see why some folks hated the Mandirin turned into a punchline it was gutsy enough that I can respect it (Weird I know).

[zslane]

By introducing Justin Hammer into the MCU, Marvel established a source of "bad guy" super-tech weaponry that has proven useful to writers of shows like Luke Cage. At least in this sense Hammer turned out to be more useful than just as disposable antagonist for one movie.

[Christopher R Taylor]

My problem with Iron Man 3 isn't the diversion from the comics (although the Mandarin thing sucked, its like turning the Joker into a harmless clown who makes balloon animals.  Really??).  Its that it was about Tony Stark NOT being Iron Man, and then a ridiculous horde of remote control Iron Man suits that would cost more than the entire world's GDP, suits which are alternately tough enough to fight the Hulk or shatter when hit like a cartoon.  And nervous breakdown Tony was not fun to watch.

[dmjalund]

I would forgive Iron Man 3 if there later proved to be a real Mandarin somewhere out there

[Lord Liaden]

14 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

I would forgive Iron Man 3 if there later proved to be a real Mandarin somewhere out there

 

 

[RDU Neil]

4 hours ago, Grailknight said:

My friends are divided into two camps on Iron Man 3, the non readers liked it, the people who followed the comic through the modern Mandarin and Extremis arcs thought it sucked.

 

I've been reading Iron Man since Tales of Suspense and I loved Iron Man 3. (Well really, since about Iron Man #75 or so... but still.) Granted I'm a huge fan of Shane Black's movies, so seeing that translated into Marvel (just like I love Waititi's movies) was a real treat. Mandarin is a dated, racist villain, and what they did with Trevor was genius, a real dig at fear mongering and profiling, etc. 

 

I've said before, the only thing I didn't like was the "blow up the armors" at the end, but it was clear that when Black was asked to write this, it was assumed RDJ was stepping down, and Iron Man was supposed to "end"... and so that ending doesn't make sense in the larger context. 

[Greywind]

And got a bit of explanation in The Winter Soldier.

[Armory]

11 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

 

I've been reading Iron Man since Tales of Suspense and I loved Iron Man 3 ... Mandarin is a dated, racist villain, and what they did with Trevor was genius, a real dig at fear mongering and profiling, etc. 

 

This^.  Iron Man was the only comic I had a subscription to back in the early '70s.  I used to have a ton of old Tales of Suspense, including #s 39 and 40. I had no problem with the way they handled the Mandarin in IM3, for the reason you stated:  he was a racist caricature, with a rather silly origin to boot.

 

Having said that, I am interested in who this 'real' Mandarin is who was mentioned in that short, if they ever get around to showing us.  I'm hoping it was more than just a sop to the fanbois who were complaining.

[RDU Neil]

21 minutes ago, Armory said:

 

This^.  Iron Man was the only comic I had a subscription to back in the early '70s.  I used to have a ton of old Tales of Suspense, including #s 39 and 40. I had no problem with the way they handled the Mandarin in IM3, for the reason you stated:  he was a racist caricature, with a rather silly origin to boot.

 

Having said that, I am interested in who this 'real' Mandarin is who was mentioned in that short, if they ever get around to showing us.  I'm hoping it was more than just a sop to the fanbois who were complaining.

 

And I will say, I'm still reading Iron Man. I read all the Extremis and Fraction' Mandarin series. I liked them a lot. What you can get away with in the comics is very different than in the MCU, though. The fact that the original meaning of the word "mandarin" meant "bureaucrat" or "civil servant" and not "warlord" or any such is also telling.