Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[bigdamnhero]

Story credit without screenplay credit often means that a writer or writers wrote a version of the script that was then completely rewritten. From what I have read, it seems to often go to the first writer on the project -- even if nothing of theirs is used.

My understanding is a "Story" credit can also mean the writer wrote a treatment or significant outline that another writer then fleshed out into a full screenplay. Don't know if that's the case here, obviously.

[slikmar]

Let's hope he breaks his streak with this one.

So you don't want a scene where an Amazon rapes Trevor?

[Starlord]

During her lesson to Diana on the evils of men we'll get a flashback of Hippolyta remembering her rape by Hercules.  Hows that? 

[bigdamnhero]

Finally got around to renting BvS. (Wife's out of town on travel, no game tonight, expectations are low, I have beer, I figure WTF.)

 

If someone had told teenage-me that one day I would get to watch a major motion picture with Superman fighting beside Batman & Wonder Woman, and that when Superman sacrifices himself to stop Doomsday the only emotion I would feel...is relief that the damn movie is almost over...I probably would've killed myself.

 

No need re-hash the last 40+ pages of everything wrong with this atrocity. But one thing did jump out at me. When Marvel wants to set up the coming conflict with their Big Bad, we get multiple movies over several years teasing Thanos and the Infinity Stones, they establish his Bad Ass creds by showing how even major villains like Loki & Ronin are scared of him, everything short of a flashing neon sign that says "Warning: Cosmic Encounter Ahead."

 

How does DC foreshadow the coming throwdown with Darkseid?

WW: "Why do you say they'll have to fight?"

Bats: "Just a feeling."

[megaplayboy]

Yeah, I saw about half of BvS a couple days ago. Meh. The whole thing just seemed way off the mark.

[bigdamnhero]

The other stray thought I had was that even detonating a nuke over Metropolis couldn't actually cut through the gloom. I mean you'd think they could've at least gotten 2 minutes of bright light out of it? I'd almost admire Snyder's commitment to his own vision, if said vision didn't suck so bad.

 

Edit: does using the word "Dawn" in a movie almost completely free of sunlight count as ironic? Or as lack of self-awareness?

[Bazza]

Edit: does using the word "Dawn" in a movie almost completely free of sunlight count as ironic? Or as lack of self-awareness?

 

Nope. What is dawn but the end of night and the beginning of sunlight? If anything the use of "dawn" is prescient, that night is ending and the dawn of justice is on the horizon.

 

In other words, the use of "dawn" is perfectly apt description. 

[Bazza]

Continuing on from above post:

 

Justice's 'dark night* of the soul**' is Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice. 

 

 

*or perhaps Dark Knight aka Batman

​** which is hilarious due to the Randian & Nietzsche influence on the film. 

[Old Man]

Nope. What is dawn but the end of night and the beginning of sunlight?

 

Which dawn?  Astronomical, nautical, or civil?

[Pattern Ghost]

Which dawn?  Astronomical, nautical, or civil?

 

Delta. What's that flower she's got on?

 

 

A fartblossom.

 

[Starlord]

Which dawn?  Astronomical, nautical, or civil?

 

Asian Dawn.

 

[Bazza]

Which dawn?  Astronomical, nautical, or civil?

 

Eschatological

[bigdamnhero]

Nope. What is dawn but the end of night and the beginning of sunlight? If anything the use of "dawn" is prescient, that night is ending and the dawn of justice is on the horizon.

 

In other words, the use of "dawn" is perfectly apt description. 

I guess I forgot a sarcasm tag. Yes, I understand the definition of dawn and how the filmmakers want us to interpret it.

[Bazza]

Ah no worries.

[Bazza]

What Harley Quinn’s Creator Thinks Of Margot Robbie’s Suicide Squad Performance

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[Old Man]

Came home the other night to find the boys watching this film--they had come across it while channel surfing.  I didn't get to watch the whole thing, because I am too busy adulting in the evenings to be able to watch much TV.  But I did see Batman pick up a gun, and kill people.  I saw Metropolis get hit with the equivalent of several tactical nuclear explosions, only some of which were caused by a supervillain.  And if my eight year old is cheering when Superman seemingly dies, because he thought Superman was the bad guy, somebody did something wrong.  I should not have to reeducate my kid about Superman!  What the actual f__k?

[zslane]

Came home the other night to find the boys watching this film--they had come across it while channel surfing.  I didn't get to watch the whole thing, because I am too busy adulting in the evenings to be able to watch much TV.  But I did see Batman pick up a gun, and kill people.  I saw Metropolis get hit with the equivalent of several tactical nuclear explosions, only some of which were caused by a supervillain.  And if my eight year old is cheering when Superman seemingly dies, because he thought Superman was the bad guy, somebody did something wrong.  I should not have to reeducate my kid about Superman!  What the actual f__k?

 

I understand where you're coming from, and in a general sense I agree with your sentiment. I'm not a huge fan of the Snyderverse either.

 

However, in BvS, Superman is the villain, at least for the first two acts of the film. The movie is essentially told from the point of view of an embittered Bruce Wayne who only knows Superman as the godlike alien that brought ruin to Metropolis. Your 8-year old got it right, at least up to the point when Doomsday appears. After the film pivots and shifts the role of villain away from Superman, you are expected to understand that Bruce Wayne had it all wrong. Maybe this shift is too subtle for an 8-year old; but then again I don't think BvS was intended for children.

 

How would you explain The Dark Knight Returns to your child? That would require quite a bit of re-educating as well, I should think. And I guess that is what parenting is all about, no?

[drunkonduty]

I finally saw Batman v Superman last night.

 

It was pretty bad.

 

Overwrought dialogue. Overwrought acting. Confused plot. So many flash backs (and flash sideways? Possibly even a Flash, sideways?) Do we really need to keep seeing the Waynes gunned down in an alley way? Or Bruce Wayne afflicted by bats? This was a franchise movie. You have to assume that your audience is aware of the franchise back story. And is Bruce Wayne prophetic now? When did that happen?

 

Confused plot and bad pacing made worse by the flash backs.

 

A couple of flashes of cool. Wonder Woman's entry into the final fight. A couple of frames of  WW's grin just after she gets thumped across the battlefield by Doomsday, which showed how much she was actually enjoying herself. Lex Luthor re-imagined as a young Steve Jobs might  have liked to think of himself. (ie: cool.)

 

...

 

Can't think of any others.

 

I give it 1 star out of 5. Bad, but not bad enough to be good.

[zslane]

Yeah, clearly Hollywood is far more obsessed with Bruce Wayne's childhood trauma than the comics ever were.

 

And the first rule in Hollywood is never assume your audience knows anything. Not even the events of the previous movie(s) in a franchise series.

[Cassandra]

A few questions from the theatrical versions.

 

One, why did Lex Luthor's mercenaries use "Special" Bullets that allowed Lois to track them back to him?  Aside from that subplot there is no reason at all not to use regular bullets.

 

Two, why was Superman blamed for what happened in the village?  All we saw him do is rescue Lois by knocking one guy through a wall.  If I follow the testimony of the witness the local Warlord destroyed the village after Superman left, and there were complaints that he was intervening without authorization just for rescuing Lois, much less sticking around and changing the countries government.

 

Three, why didn't Wallace Keefe contact Wayne Enterprises when he didn't get the checks from the victims fund, the ones that Lex intercepted to write provocative messages on to turn Bruce against Superman.  You think he would have mentioned it on TV when he was being arrested and Bruce would have cut him a check right away.

 

Four, why didn't the Wayne Enterprises people in the Metropolis building leave the moment aliens began fighting in the skies over the city.  Do they have to wait for Bruce to tell them it's okay?  I'm thinking that is why called and Jack told him he evacuated the building the moment the fighting began Jack would be getting a nice bonus for his quick thinking instead of being a character we're suppose to care about.

 

Five, why Jesse Eisenburg as Lex Luthor?  I would have preferred if they took the animated version from the Superman TV show with the voice of Clancy Brown instead.  In fact a cardboard cut of of the animated versions would have been more credible.

 

Six, why does Wonder Woman only show up after over two hours?  

 

Seven, why does Batman dream about Parademons, only to have it interrupted by "The Flash" who is too early?  Did "The Flash" traveling back in time cause Bruce to have a flash forward into the future?  And why didn't "The Flash" use the persons name instead of saying "He"?  How much harder would it for him to say "You were right about Darkseid" then just he?

[aylwin13]

Just a guess: bad writing?

[Pattern Ghost]

That. Also, although they didn't communicate it well in the movie, that was supposed to be Lex Luthor Jr. Still a horrible take on the character.

[zslane]

Six, why does Wonder Woman only show up after over two hours? 

 

Narratively it is because she spends the whole movie "removed from the affairs of Men," as she had been for the better part of a century. Bruce is quite the inspirational speaker...

[Old Man]

However, in BvS, Superman is the villain, at least for the first two acts of the film. The movie is essentially told from the point of view of an embittered Bruce Wayne who only knows Superman as the godlike alien that brought ruin to Metropolis. Your 8-year old got it right, at least up to the point when Doomsday appears. After the film pivots and shifts the role of villain away from Superman, you are expected to understand that Bruce Wayne had it all wrong. Maybe this shift is too subtle for an 8-year old; but then again I don't think BvS was intended for children.

 

How would you explain The Dark Knight Returns to your child? That would require quite a bit of re-educating as well, I should think. And I guess that is what parenting is all about, no?

 

There is an obvious distinction between the philosophies of Superman and Batman that isn't lost on the boy. Or wasn't, prior to this film.

[bigdamnhero]

However, in BvS, Superman is the villain, at least for the first two acts of the film.

Here's the thing - if they'd committed to that idea, they could've made an interesting movie out of it. It wouldn't have been a Superman movie, but it could've been interesting. But they kept wanting to have it both ways. Bats may see Supes as the villain, the film wanted us to sympathize with him as a misunderstood figure.

 

One, why did Lex Luthor's mercenaries use "Special" Bullets that allowed Lois to track them back to him?  Aside from that subplot there is no reason at all not to use regular bullets.

That was possibly the flimsiest thread of the whole stupid thing; there was absolutely no need for it. Nor was there any reason the public should assume that a bunch o bullet-riddled corpses were Superman's doing. And all he would've had to do is make one statement to the press about what really happened. But I guess he doesn't know any good reporters.

 

Five, why Jesse Eisenburg as Lex Luthor?  I would have preferred if they took the animated version from the Superman TV show with the voice of Clancy Brown instead.  In fact a cardboard cut of of the animated versions would have been more credible.

Yeah, he was clearly trying to channel the Joker, but he just came across as a coked-up imbecile. And the bit at the end with them ominously shaving his head in prison made me laugh out loud. You know they don't actually do that in prison, right?

 

Six, why does Wonder Woman only show up after over two hours? 

Well, Diana Prince did have a couple scenes before that in civvies - she was the woman at the LexCorp party that was trying to steal data from Lex. It was kindof a throwaway; I didn't realize it was her until the scene was almost over.