Simon Posted January 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Edit that (now) or you're done in the thread (and likely moderated in general) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Ceding the point to the relatively new poster, challenging Trump supporters directly is never going to work. There are a number of conservative parents in my kids' Scout troop, and it's a fine line between not rocking the boat and yet standing up for your values. Fortunately I've already built up some rapport with these folks so it's easier to humanize issues ("The GOP shutdown in 2013 cost me my job") and ask thought provoking questions ("But why do same-sex couple bother you so much?") It's easy to pick on these people for closemindedness, but anyone who gets pulled into the Fox/Facebook conservasphere is going to be hard to pull out. It's not entirely their fault. Joe Walsh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Unclevlad will no longer be joining in this conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 15 hours ago, Old Man said: It's easy to pick on these people for closemindedness, but anyone who gets pulled into the Fox/Facebook conservasphere is going to be hard to pull out. It's not entirely their fault. Yeah, it's pretty much a human thing, as recent studies have shown. We really, really don't like having our core beliefs challenged, and will pretty much do whatever it takes to keep them intact in most circumstances, including lying to ourselves about things we've seen right in front of us with our own eyes. It's pretty scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Good thing us independents/moderates are immune to this strange closemindedness virus that conservatives and liberals claim only affect each other. TrickstaPriest, Hugh Neilson, pinecone and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Walsh Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yup, anyone who has no core beliefs in anything is totally immune. Hermit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Is it over yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 It'll go on until the airports close. The Occupant humiliated himself yesterday by feeding cold fast food to Clemson athletes because WH kitchen staff had been furloughed. He made a big deal about paying for it out of his own pocket, although he owns a hotel and restaurant two blocks away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DShomshak Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Various news reports (and an interview on All /things Considered) dealt with a recent study our of Princeton on who was most likely to pass along fake news during the 2016 campaign. Result: By age, people over 65 were most likely, with percentages declining with each age bracket down. And very conservative people were far more likely than the moderate, liberal or very liberal to pass along fake news. Centers and Lefties should not feel too smug, though. In the interview, one of the researchers pointed out a confounding variable: So much more disinformation was put out to benefit Trump than to benefit Clinton. So people in other ideological brackets weren't given as much chance to fall for bushwah. One might suspect that the Russians and other producers of misinformation and disinformation had an idea which cohort would be most susceptible, but that was beyond the scope of the study. And as mentioned above, we can all fall prey to confirmation bias. So, the old adage about splinters and logs in the eye. And another that anyone who wants to change other people's behavior should show the possibility by changing their own. I am not sure I would succeed at that challenge. Dean Shomshak Dean Shomshak Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I am conflicted. The wall is stupid But the economic impact of not building it will soon equal and exceed the cost asked for building it. But it is a government project, and a Trump government project at that. The wall will cost much more than 5 billion, and if Congress refuses to pay, we'll be right back here. Conflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 My co-worker suggested giving him the funding, but require milestones--much like hiring a contractor, future payments would be based upon completion of earlier phases in a timely manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Honestly , at this point I think the Dems should go for something big and progressive and say "Here, you want five billion for the wall? You got it, IF you get twice as much to starting universal health care. We'll start with free health care for kids 12 and under. And build up from there." Pariah, Doc Shadow, DShomshak and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hermit said: Honestly , at this point I think the Dems should go for something big and progressive and say "Here, you want five billion for the wall? You got it, IF you get twice as much to starting universal health care. We'll start with free health care for kids 12 and under. And build up from there." That's pretty much what I've been thinking. Trump gets his stupid wall, but we get Universal Healthcare, Tuition Free Public Colleges, and 70% tax on income in excess of $10,000,000.00 per year (from all sources including capital gains and money in offshore accounts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Old Man said: It'll go on until the airports close. The Occupant humiliated himself yesterday by feeding cold fast food to Clemson athletes because WH kitchen staff had been furloughed. He made a big deal about paying for it out of his own pocket, although he owns a hotel and restaurant two blocks away. I hadn't even considered that aspect of the shutdown. Now I'm even more frustrated by the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 What makes you guys think Trump and McConnell will suddenly start negotiating in good faith? The current spending bill that's been approved by the House is the same bill that was unanimously approved by the Senate weeks ago, now McConnell won't even bring it to the floor. Trump is on tape telling Pelosi and Schumer that he'd proudly own any shutdown; now he's blaming Pelosi and Schumer. And people blame the Dems for not caving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Oh if I were the dems I wouldn't give them any wiggle room to weasel it. Make the offer. Make the offer public. Let people find out that the Dems tried to negotiate to help the health care of kids and that got nixed along with the wall. Trump's loyalists won't change their minds but even more folks on the fence would probably realize that at least the Dems are trying to negotiate Least that's my hope Ranxerox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 The wall won't work. The government shutdown hurts innocent people. IMO all federal political players are to blame for years of shortsightedness bringing the United States to the point where such a scenario can even exist. But now that the country is here, I believe that the Democrats cannot concede to President Trump's demands without at least major concessions in return. Trump is willing to use the well-being of his own citizenry as leverage to get his way. It would set a dangerous precedent for any head of state to be rewarded for such behavior. pinecone, DShomshak and Pariah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 Brexit deal crushed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 White House doubles estimate of the negative impact on GDP due to shutdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Starlord and Lord Liaden 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 12:10 PM, Starlord said: Brexit deal crushed Just when you think it cannot gt any worse, it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 But we've known that deal would fail for a while now. It's not surprising. Logically the EU can't provide a better deal lest it encourage other members to defect. The only real solution is to not-Brexit, and I don't understand why that's even an issue given all the evidence that the Russians tampered with the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 it is the attitude of some of those who are determined to leave their way that causes so much grief. Different matter if they are in the Labour Party but when it is among the Conservatives themselves ? Then there are the Irish MPs that the Conservatives depend on to cling to power. Sheesh ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Why Trump's signature looks like he uses a Sharpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Not a massive fan of Obama, but thought this was funny. assault and Lord Liaden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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