Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Hermit]

the fourth most powerful democrat in congress lost his primary

[Lord Liaden]

12 minutes ago, Hermit said:

the fourth most powerful democrat in congress lost his primary

 

Interesting. Particularly in who he lost to. Practically his diametric opposite.

 

In a country tired of the old political elite, maybe what the Democrats need to rejuvenate their support is an influx of fresh blood.

[Old Man]

What the Democrats need to rejuvenate their support is sticking to an actual Democratic platform instead of being Republican-lite.

 

Of course, with the SCOTUS in full support of gerrymandering and voter purges, that may not be enough.

[RDU Neil]

12 hours ago, Hermit said:

the fourth most powerful democrat in congress lost his primary

 

Yeah... was reading this here... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/26/democrats-primaries-upset-joe-crowley-alexandria-osacio-cortez?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+USA+-+Collections+2017&utm_term=279391&subid=24646434&CMP=GT_US_collection

 

And I don't see why this is a bad thing. It is exactly what the Democrats need. Assuming the staid leadership realizes it. She may not be a Dem party member, but as Crowley did, the Dems should back her fully.

 

As Old Man said, the Dems have become Republicans (while the Republicans have become extremists in many cases) and that is the problem. The whole country has swung so far to the right, that Hillary is considered a liberal. (She was a Goldwater Girl for christsakes!) I mean, I voted for her as the best candidate for the job at the time, but I really don't like the mainstream Democratic ties to Wall Street and the like. I'm much more of a Democratic Socialist in leaning, but not a Bernie-Bro ideologue. The fact that Bernie is considered "radical" is just another indication of how far the Center has swung right.

[Hermit]

I don't find it 'bad' but I was surprised, and more than a little impressed.

 

I do agree the Democrats have become , in their way, almost as (Or perhaps just as much) corporate owned as the Republicans. So yes, I like what I hear about this woman spurning corporate donations. 

 

The Democrats have lost a lot of the trust they had from blue collar workers. They need to get it back if they hope to swing things around.

 

Of course, my own biases against monopolies and big biz maybe blinding me to some real politik

[RDU Neil]

1 hour ago, Hermit said:

I don't find it 'bad' but I was surprised, and more than a little impressed.

 

I do agree the Democrats have become , in their way, almost as (Or perhaps just as much) corporate owned as the Republicans. So yes, I like what I hear about this woman spurning corporate donations. 

 

The Democrats have lost a lot of the trust they had from blue collar workers. They need to get it back if they hope to swing things around.

 

Of course, my own biases against monopolies and big biz maybe blinding me to some real politik

 

yes to all of this almost... though I know it is my own biases that I balk at the "ennobling" of the famed "blue collar worker" who has never really shown a noble streak, but only short sighted self-interest, easily swayed, and highly racist.

 

"Yay Unions... give me more money!  Yay Democrats supporting unions... I've got my own moneyed interest now!  Boo Unions... why is this black guy in my union?  Boo Democrats who support policies that help other people not just me.  Yay Trump!"

[DShomshak]

23 hours ago, RDU Neil said:

 

I will go try to find that book... thanks!  (I'm old, but not 1920's old.)

 

 

Edit... ok I think I found it. Both 1957 and 1989 editions available

 

 

From the 1930's I guess.

Just to be clear, I haven't read the book myself. Daniel Patrick Moynihan cited it in a book of his essays about the politics of ethnicity. Moynihan was a sociologiest before he had a political career himself.

 

Right now I'm reading The Great Revolt: Inside the Populist Coalition Reshaping American Politics, by Salena Zito and Brad Todd. Their thesis: Trump's election was not a fluke of one man's charisma and a deplorable electorate, it's the coming together of several large groups that feel alienated from the political establishment and especially by those bad ol' out-of-touch coastal elites. Yes, I suspect their purpose is polemical as much as reportorial: their listing of Red-looded and Blue Collared, Perot-istas, Rough Rebounders, Girl Gun Power, Rotary Reliables, King Cyrus Christians, and Silent Suburban Moms leaves out the Hard-Core Bigots that we saw a great deal of during the election. But I have only just started reading. I'll see if their case studies of Trump voters includes the racial anxiety that was found by, say, National Geographic's recent examination of a Pennsylvania town's Trump voters.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Starlord]

SC Justice Kennedy retiring

 

Swing vote go bye-bye

[Dr.Device]

8 minutes ago, Starlord said:

SC Justice Kennedy retiring

 

Well, that's that.

 

I honestly doubt our nation will survive the next few years. Not in any form that's worth calling America, anyway.

[Hermit]

21 minutes ago, Starlord said:

SC Justice Kennedy retiring

 

Swing vote go bye-bye

 

So, I hear there are parts of Nova Scotia that will help me  fill out paperwork for Canadian citizenship if you agree to move there.

 

 

I'm not entirely sure I'm joking *groans* 

 

 

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, Dr.Device said:

 

Well, that's that.

 

I honestly doubt our nation will survive the next few years. Not in any form that's worth calling America, anyway.

 

Yup, we're done.  Only question is whether to wait and see how things shake out in November, or if I should start looking into moving now.  Any suggestions for countries with decent weather and healthcare?

[csyphrett]

For me personally, the SCOTs has sent NC's gerrymandering suit back to the lower court which has already said redraw the map, stupids.

CES  

[csyphrett]

Also the compromise bill failed 300 to one hundred and something. So all the democrats and half the republicans said F you Trump.

CES  

[L. Marcus]

11 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

Yup, we're done.  Only question is whether to wait and see how things shake out in November, or if I should start looking into moving now.  Any suggestions for countries with decent weather and healthcare?

... We have snow.

[Old Man]

Is that the weather or the healthcare?

[L. Marcus]

Depending on circumstances, it can be both.

[Lord Liaden]

Wow. For a people who threw off a tyrannical monarchy, tamed the West, won two World Wars, split the atom, overturned institutional racism, went to the Moon, and built the biggest economy in the world... you guys sure throw the towel in fast.

[Starlord]

26 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Wow. For a people who threw off a tyrannical monarchy, tamed the West, won two World Wars, split the atom, overturned institutional racism, went to the Moon, and built the biggest economy in the world... 

 

Don't forget the plastic hula hoop.

[Ragitsu]

30 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Wow. For a people who threw off a tyrannical monarchy, tamed the West, won two World Wars, split the atom, overturned institutional racism, went to the Moon, and built the biggest economy in the world... you guys sure throw the towel in fast.

 

[Ragitsu]

[Hermit]

51 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Wow. For a people who threw off a tyrannical monarchy, tamed the West, won two World Wars, split the atom, overturned institutional racism, went to the Moon, and built the biggest economy in the world... you guys sure throw the towel in fast.

 

Sorry, lot of bad news coming in all at once can do that to you, at least for a bit.

 

[RDU Neil]

3 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

 

I have no idea what the 'ef that is.

[Pattern Ghost]

10 minutes ago, RDU Neil said:

I have no idea what the 'ef that is.

 

I think it's a visual pun on the phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants" in reference to the post above it.

[Vondy]

I'm not sure building their own mirror-universe version of the Tea Party is a winning strategy for the dems.

 

My parents were Reagan Democrats. I'm a Kennedy Republican.

 

If John F Kennedy or Bobby Kennedy were running today, I'd vote for them. Problem is, they couldn't win a nomination for a seat from the Democrats today.

 

Cest la vie. Hasta lavista America. Centrist, moderate, mainstream voters no longer have a home. Partisan idiots are ruling the roost.

 

Find me a fiscally conservative proponent of free markets, a staunch proponent of civil liberties and curtailed government power, and a robust defense.

 

I'll vote for them. Otherwise, I have no choice because no real choice is being offered.

 

[Sociotard]

It may be difficult to reconcile "robust defense" with some of the others, like "fiscally conservative", unless your definition of "defense" is "make your country exceedingly unattractive to invade", rather than the reckless military adventurism too many the US admire.

 

But if you want Fiscally Conservative + Curtailed government power, I can tell you how: always vote for divided government. This means paying less attention to policy and more to political horse-races. So, if the polls say the Presidency is a lock for Republicans but the House is less certain? Vote a Republican president and Democrats for congress. And vice versa.

 

When Obama had a Democratic House, the deficit increased every year. When he had a Republican House, it shrank every year.

When Bush had a Republican House, the deficit increased 5 out of 6 years. When he had a Democratic House it shrank.

 

This trend has held steady since WWII; divided government means fiscal responsibility and reduced government meddling (as measured by number of bureaucrats working for the government, number of regulations, and a few other factors)

 

(sorry, pet theory I like to trot out frequently. These graphs show a distribution for Rates of deficit growth or shrink, rather than distributions of deficits themselves)

Deficit_Constant.bmp

Deficit_GDP.bmp