Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[unclevlad]

Another point to consider.

 

What's going on now is much like the civil rights movement of the 60s...in the other direction, of course, but otherwise similar.  So, sure, history suggests the pendulum will eventually swing back away from the Republicans...altho if they can co-opt the election process itself, that might not hold...but the swing we're seeing now, is becoming clear 50 years after the last swing.

 

So...how old would you be if this conservative period lasts 50 years?

[Ragitsu]

Depending on how badly conservatives (Republicans in particular) plague the planet with disastrous ecological policies, Earth - or the United States, at the minimum - may not last fifty years. Well...not for us homo sapiens, anyhow. The bottom line is that they can cheat many things, but biological requirements aren't budging.

[Joe Walsh]

Reactionary Dude just needs one knock-out punch to beat Liberal Person, but Liberal Person could still theoretically turn the tide if they tried hard enough and got a little lucky with the dice. So, sure R-Bro is still being a bit careful and not getting overly cocky, but the end is still all but certain.

 

[TrickstaPriest]

Ted Cruz, et al, have been going after gay rights as well.  So not only have their intent/policies have been disastrous for the survival of our species, but they've been politically winning the will of the people despite this and while continuing to target vast swaths of the population with explicitly harmful laws?

 

:/

[Pariah]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

So...how old would you be if this conservative period lasts 50 years?

 

In 50 years, I will be well and safely dead; almost certainly decades before that, I expect. When this country goes to Hell in the proverbial hand basket, I'll be gone.

 

But my kids probably won't be, and their kids won't be.

 

I do wonder what the United States of America will look like 50 years from now. Or if there will still be such an entity. Maybe in 50 years the US of A will be a third-world country (or maybe more than one), and everyone in North America will be speaking Mandarin. Maybe a lot of major cities and large swaths of farmland, here and elsewhere, will be radioactive glass. Maybe it won't be nuclear winter, but runaway global warming. Or maybe we'll all starve when we've killed all the bees and there's nothing left to pollinate our crops. 

 

The biggest problem I see is that I can't trust either major American political party to save us from any of these outcomes. The Democratic Party, as presently constituted, can't do it. They're impotent and ineffectual. Even with Executive and Legislative majorities they fail time and time again to make any significant changes. And the Republican Party doesn't want to save us. They're perfectly happy to push their profit- and power-driven agenda with complete disregard for the negative effects it has on the future--because for the people running the GQP right now, the only thing that matters is winning right now.

 

We're screwed.

[Old Man]

36 minutes ago, Pariah said:

 

In 50 years, I will be well and safely dead; almost certainly decades before that, I expect.

 

Not if I can help it.

[Ragitsu]

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

And the Republican Party doesn't want to save us.

 

Some of them have been infected by the religious mind-virus and are perfectly happy to hasten the arrival of 'the end times".

 

  

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

the US of A will be a third-world country (or maybe more than one), and everyone in North America will be speaking Mandarin.

 

If we nixed that "third-world" bit and swapped Mandarin for Japanese, that wouldn't be so bad...or at least that's what 80s and 90s anime taught me, anyhow.

  

 

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

Or maybe we'll all starve when we've killed all the bees and there's nothing left to pollinate our crops.

 

Micro-machines to the rescue?

 

  

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

But my kids probably won't be

 

Don't worry: either way, they'll have a few decades (at most).

 

  

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

their kids won't be.

 

Now, see, you've got to stop thinking so far ahead. Who are you: Nostradamus?

[Ragitsu]

If benevolent aliens or a kindly fantasy race invites you to join them, follow and don't look back.

[Lord Liaden]

5 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 

Whoooaaaa.....

 

Where do you get 'scared' out of this?

 

Nooo...your take here is, I think, 100% wrong.  It's not fear, it's consolidating the power grab to eliminate ANY chance of it being reversed.  

 

 

 

I agree, that is what they're trying to do. But your trend analysis is based on the precedent of past political maneuvers. Mine is based on demographics. The bulk of Republican support is aging and will soon start dying off in droves. What they fear-monger over actually is happening, but not out of any sinister motive or organized agenda, merely the natural evolution of society. The GOP are stepping up their assault on democracy because they recognize the clock is ticking down for their window of opportunity. They don't have the option of playing a decades-long game to achieve their goals, not without taking major steps in a matter of years.

[Ragitsu]

12 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

The bulk of Republican support is aging and will soon start dying off in droves.

 

What are your thoughts on the fresh batch of reactionaries being created by online right-wing hucksters?

[Ragitsu]

 

[Lord Liaden]

46 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

 

What are your thoughts on the fresh batch of reactionaries being created by online right-wing hucksters?

 

By themselves, not enough. Conservatism has limited appeal to youth. The audience for the right-wing media is also an aging demographic. It's why conservatives in state governments are trying to control school curricula, to force them to indoctrinate American youth with their worldview.

[DShomshak]

The Economist reports that the young conservatives of a new crop of post-Trumpian think-tanks policy shops are ebullient. And with reason. They are correct, at least, that the current liberal elites are utterly ineffectual. They don't care if the majority is against them, because the majority, provably, is passive.

 

The Bolsheviks didn't take over Russia because they represented the will of most Russians. They took over because they wanted it more, and their opposition was fragmented and inept. They kept power for 70 years, in large part by murdering all the opposition once they attained the power to do so.

 

The raw hatred and contempt openly expressed by many modern conservatives suggests they will do the same.

 

Ultimately, such tactics must break the US as a world power. But the United States of Real America would start out from a much stronger position than the Soviet Union did, and can cause a lot more damage before it self-destructs or is taken down.

 

It's why I'm trying to promote my "Sell the Cities to Canada" plan. I can only hope that conservatives would rather quickly and easily foist the people they no longer consider Real Americans onto another country, than punish the rest of us for our wickedness.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Pariah]

An interesting read:

 

The Self-Fulfilling Prophecies of Clarence Thomas

 

Quote

For decades, Thomas has had a deeply pessimistic view of the country, rooted in his reading of the Fourteenth Amendment. After the Supreme Court’s recent opinions, his dystopia is becoming our reality. 

 

[Lord Liaden]

6 hours ago, DShomshak said:

The Economist reports that the young conservatives of a new crop of post-Trumpian think-tanks policy shops are ebullient. And with reason. They are correct, at least, that the current liberal elites are utterly ineffectual. They don't care if the majority is against them, because the majority, provably, is passive.

 

 

I'm hearing and reading a lot more activism among liberals since the recent moves by conservatives. Democrat lawmakers are becoming more outspoken and confrontational about Republicans. Polls among voters who assert their intention to vote are all trending away from Republicans. It's by no means certain what that will translate to in three months, but I believe there's reason for hope.

 

IMO there are several factors at play in America which make it distinct from the examples you cite. For one, both Russia and Germany were emerging from wars with serious negative economic consequences and damage to their national pride, making them ripe for exploitation by organized radicals. The tactics of the Bolsheviks and the Nazis, which the GOP and their media allies have adopted, are well known and recognizable to anyone with a passing knowledge of history. The capability of the Internet to rally and organize factions on the right at a grass-roots level, also cuts for the left, and I've noticed a number of parties using it for that purpose. The arch-conservatives definitely have a lead, but liberals are starting to make up ground.

[Ragitsu]

7 hours ago, DShomshak said:

The Economist reports that the young conservatives of a new crop of post-Trumpian think-tanks policy shops are ebullient. And with reason. They are correct, at least, that the current liberal elites are utterly ineffectual. They don't care if the majority is against them, because the majority, provably, is passive.

 

The Bolsheviks didn't take over Russia because they represented the will of most Russians. They took over because they wanted it more, and their opposition was fragmented and inept. They kept power for 70 years, in large part by murdering all the opposition once they attained the power to do so.

 

The raw hatred and contempt openly expressed by many modern conservatives suggests they will do the same.

 

Comparing United States conservatives to the Bolsheviks? Oh...you were serious.

 

• Life one-hundred plus years ago was hard in general: technology was all-around inferior and MEDICINE sucked compared to that which is available today.
• Russia's climate makes for a harsh land; exceptions aside, compared to Russia, the contiguous USA is the Garden of Eden.
• Politically speaking, the landscape is different; right-wing insurgents will have more foreign allies to contend with.

 

Your standard weathered Bolshevik partisan accustomed to the early 1920s is going to snap a typical 2022 US conservative - used to mass-produced goods and a relative life of luxury - in half.

[Iuz the Evil]

I find that increasingly, political extremism results in polarized positions which do not reflect the beliefs of the majority of Americans. While the conservative platform is more extreme (and frankly frightening), the progressive platform has become focused on issues that don’t resonate so routinely lose the argument in the public square. With $6 gas, and 9.1% CPI the party in power (however shackled by internal strife in the legislative branch) is poised to get crushed and lose that legislative majority in the midterm elections. That’ll render their control of the Executive Branch less consequential for the next two years, and the lack of strong candidates doesn’t bode well for 2024. Within 4 years they could easily go from control of 2/3 of the government, to nothing.

 

I am very concerned about this, because for all their floundering about and focus on Instagram-style posturing rather than sound governance, the Democrats frankly represent more thoughtful policy and a rational approach to problem solving (usually). 
 

I miss Carville-style bare knuckle politics, red meat for the working class, and winning elections. A more pragmatic approach would make me happy, but if not we will see if the majority of the electorate backs the platform. The niche issues of the day do not seem to be getting it done.

[Lord Liaden]

What frustrates me most is that this Democrat administration and legislature have for the most part been following sound fiscal and diplomatic policies, and despite Republican obstructionism have some genuine positive accomplishments to their credit; but they seem almost pathologically unwilling to take credit or advertise those pluses to the American people. Their messaging has been pathetic, far behind the Republicans in effectiveness and pervasiveness. It would be tragic if America slipped into fascism because of poor salesmanship. (Also ironic, in that Americans as a culture are probably the greatest salesmen the world has ever seen.)

[Ternaugh]

There's a common view about research into new medicines is to find cures (like a cure for cancer), but if you actually look at where pharmaceutical companies make their money is with medications that provide palliative care, but leave the folks just sick enough so that they will keep on buying the product. Cures don't bring in recurring revenue streams.

 

Unfortunately, I'm seeing some of the same things in politics. Politicians don't really want to settle issues; it would cut out the ability to use them for continuous fundraising. Essentially, repairing the system isn't good for the grift.

[death tribble]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:23 PM, Ragitsu said:

If benevolent aliens or a kindly fantasy race invites you to join them, follow and don't look back.

Would the English qualify as either for the Americans ?

[Ragitsu]

55 minutes ago, death tribble said:

Would the English qualify as either for the Americans ?

 

Yeah: we call them "Hobbits" (or - maybe - "Elves").

[wcw43921]

This is What "Pro-Life" Looks Like

[Lord Liaden]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:23 PM, Ragitsu said:

If benevolent aliens or a kindly fantasy race invites you to join them, follow and don't look back.

 

Unless they wish To Serve Man.

[Iuz the Evil]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/democrats-favored-win-senate-first-time-538-1728325%3Famp%3D1
 

If this happens, it will be in no small part because former President Trump has thrown his considerable support into advancing terrible candidates in Georgia (Walker), Pennsylvania (Oz), and Arizona (Masters). I may need to write him a thank you note. That would be an astonishing political failure by the GOP, and give the Democrats a significant opportunity which they hopefully don’t bungle.

 

But hey, there’s still time…

[Old Man]

That would be so much cooler if the Democrats weren't almost guaranteed to lose the House in November.