Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Cygnia]

Italian PM Mario Draghi says he will resign as Rome’s coalition government collapses

[wcw43921]

Somehow it seems to me that "comedian" and "far-right activist" are a contradiction in terms.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Cygnia said:

Italian PM Mario Draghi says he will resign as Rome’s coalition government collapses

 

69 Italian governments since 1946. Average of one every 13 months.

 

Mayflies, daylilies, and Italian governments. Bywords for ephemera.

[Cygnia]

42 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

69 Italian governments since 1946. Average of one every 13 months.

 

Mayflies, daylilies, and Italian governments. Bywords for ephemera.

'No, Mario', Italian president urges PM Draghi not to quit

[assault]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

69 Italian governments since 1946. Average of one every 13 months.

 

Mayflies, daylilies, and Italian governments. Bywords for ephemera.

 

And yet they almost always consist of the same parties, just in different configurations.

[Lord Liaden]

The Italian parliament has almost all the parties there are.

[dmjalund]

53 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

The Italian parliament has almost all the parties there are.

so many parties, I'm surprised we didn't see Boris Johnson there

[death tribble]

Silvio Berlusconi didn't want the competition

[Cancer]

This suggests that the Italians know how to party, but there is broad disagreement over details.

[Ternaugh]

58 minutes ago, Cancer said:

This suggests that the Italians know how to party, but there is broad disagreement over details.

 

Presidential party
No-one wants to dance

[Lord Liaden]

Republican Judges, Lawyers, Senators Conclude 2020 Election Was 'Lost, Not Stolen'

 

Here is a link to their actual, very thorough and comprehensive report, methodically debunking every false claim; but the article above gives the high points. This is something you can direct people to which might actually change some minds, or at least counter arguments.

 

 

[unclevlad]

43 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Republican Judges, Lawyers, Senators Conclude 2020 Election Was 'Lost, Not Stolen'

 

Here is a link to their actual, very thorough and comprehensive report, methodically debunking every false claim; but the article above gives the high points. This is something you can direct people to which might actually change some minds, or at least counter arguments.

 

The problem is, Trumpists are entirely comfortable with tossing RINO out there, against anyone who doesn't hew their party line.  "Danforth is out of touch!" may well be a common refrain, for example.  You can't craft a successful argument based on facts when your target audience lives in a media-constructed fantasy world.  Mind, I think it *should* be compelling;  I just don't think it will be.  Plying this narrative is simply too useful to the Trumpists.

[Lord Liaden]

Of course, there are hard-core fanatical Trump cultists who will refuse to even look at anything that counters the narrative they've wholeheartedly embraced. There is probably nothing that can be done for them by this point. But for people who have simply been brainwashed by repeated baseless claims within the conservative echo chamber, this report takes each false claim in each of the main disputed states, dissects it and dismembers it, using sources that can't be accused of a leftist agenda.

[unclevlad]

51 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Of course, there are hard-core fanatical Trump cultists who will refuse to even look at anything that counters the narrative they've wholeheartedly embraced. There is probably nothing that can be done for them by this point. But for people who have simply been brainwashed by repeated baseless claims within the conservative echo chamber, this report takes each false claim in each of the main disputed states, dissects it and dismembers it, using sources that can't be accused of a leftist agenda.

 

It's much better than nothing, sure.  I'm just saying:

a) the Trumpist echo chamber is larger than I think you believe.  Bullet point from story on PolitiFact from mid-June:

 

Quote

• In poll after poll, about 70% of Republicans say they don’t think Joe Biden is the legitimate winner of  the 2020 election.

 

b)  There's nothing particularly new in that report.  Virtually everything in it, has *already* been ignored multiple times.

c)  Those trapped in the echo chamber actively reject any other argument, MOST of the time.  To borrow..with apologies..."these are not the sources you listen to."  

 

Basically, I think Trumpism is far more pernicious and pervasive than you do, among Republicans.

 

The proof is more likely to hit in the fall, but an early indicator might be to compare how many Trumpist-leaning or Trump-supported candidates won Republican primaries.  IIRC those were mixed results.

EDIT:  Stopped after looking at the 1st bullet point, but here's the 3rd bullet point:

 

Quote

• Some Trump backers have told researchers that the more they hear reports that the election was fair, the more they believe that it wasn’t.

 

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jun/14/most-republicans-falsely-believe-trumps-stolen-ele/

 

Recognize:  the Trumpists believe Trump is right, therefore anything adverse is simply a continuation of attacks he's suffered through.  It may well be fair to say that all these do now, is to cement Trump's position as a martyr.

[Ragitsu]

Religion.

[BNakagawa]

CULT

[Cygnia]

All coupled with the self-righteous hate already lurking in what passes for their souls.

[Cancer]

Quote

If the recurrence of such acts as these prisoners stand convicted of are too common in one quarter of the country, and give omen of danger from lawless violence, the free use of money in elections, arising from the vast growth of recent wealth in other quarters, presents equal cause for anxiety. If the government of the United States has within its constitutional domain no authority to provide against these evils, – if the very sources of power may be poisoned by corruption or controlled by violence and outrage, without legal restraint, – then, indeed, is the country in danger, and its best powers, its highest purposes, the hopes which it inspires, and the love which enshrines it, are at the mercy of the combinations of those who respect no right but brute force on the one hand, and unprincipled corruptionists on the other.

 

From Justice Miller's unanimous Supreme Court decision in the Ku Klux Cases, 1884, one of the few decisions in the Reconstruction era favorable to blacks' voting rights.

[unclevlad]

We also can't ignore those who give lip service to the election fraud.  They don't believe it for a second...but it's useful in their drive to suborn the elections.

[Cygnia]

Pence aide: 'Chilling' Secret Service chaos made VP fear for his life on Jan. 6

[Ragitsu]

Pride is medicine: beneficial to a point, but exceedingly toxic after that.

[BNakagawa]

5 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

Pride is medicine: beneficial to a point, but exceedingly toxic after that.

The dose makes the poison.

[Old Man]

Surviving teacher from Uvalde returns home from the hospital

 

Interview with him from last month if you haven't seen it

 

[unclevlad]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/18/us/5-key-takeaways-uvalde-report-and-video/index.html

[Cygnia]

This...is frightening

 

One in five US adults condone ‘justified’ political violence, mega-survey finds