Wizards of the Coast Announces One D&D

[Trencher]

Well then all we can do is to see what happens. 

Hopefully the next generation have pitchforks and torches ready. 

[Duke Bushido]

20 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Shhh...this means the furries won't invade HERO!

Except for that game Dr Ohz is running, you mean. 

 

 

Tease not the furries, for the internet runs on them.

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Given how Hasbro is mishandling Magic: The Gathering, I don't have a lot of hope they'll do any better with the D&D franchise.

[Duke Bushido]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Given how Hasbro is mishandling Magic: The Gathering, I don't have a lot of hope they'll do any better with the D&D franchise.

 

Rumor,is they arent allowing OGL or fan-created stuff for DnD1, meaning that if you want to contribute or create something for publishing, you will still have to write it for 5e.

 

As for card games- and do keep in mind that this is entirely a personal opinion: given the toll they have taken on the RPG hobby and the changes they have caused in gaming stores and tables lost to card games, I dont care if all card games dry up and blow away.

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

Amen!!

 

 

Also, thinking about it, their publishing restrictions will slow the adoption down, and the wokeness will drive away the old fans, and the Zoomers have insufficient funds.  

[Scott Ruggels]

Apparently, WoTC has failed Market Research 101. Their survey of recent changes may pull One D&D on a different direction. 

 

[assault]

The interesting question here is "what stops people from playing Hero?"

Aside from D&D's massive cultural and distribution footprint...

Of course, any change to Hero would have to preserve the existing support base - the kind of people who post here - because losing us in an attempt to find new customers is pretty much doomed to fail. But at the same time we can't be a fetter on Hero's growth.

A lot of the problem is that Hero was a product of an earlier time in the RPG industry. Even then it was economically marginal, and in the space between "business" and "hobby".

[Old Man]

6 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Apparently, WoTC has failed Market Research 101. Their survey of recent changes may pull One D&D on a different direction. 

 

 

On the one hand, it'd be nice to see WOTC crash and burn leaving more oxygen for superior game systems.  On the other hand, at least they're conducting market research, which is more than I can say for most RPG game companies.

 

Still, every time I look in on the state of D&D, the debates are always around balancing classes, balancing spells, and balancing feats.  One of these days the realization that they need a points based system will hit them like a ton of bricks.  One of these days...

[Christopher R Taylor]

The biggest flaws in any game come from trying to "balance" things.  Just no.  Get them reasonably close, and then let the GM balance things with the encounters, adventures and scenarios they create.  So the warriors are more powerful than the mages?  Run games that allow the strengths of the mages to shine.  Let everyone have their big moment and struggles.

This is not a MMOG where you have to worry about PVP and one class having it too easy while another struggles facing the same pre-programmed series of encounters and locations.  There's an actual human in charge who can adapt the game to what is in it.

[assault]

1 hour ago, Old Man said:

One of these days the realization that they need a points based system will hit them like a ton of bricks.  One of these days...

 

Since I have nothing better to do:
Start with Hero. 

Ditch all characteristics except Str, Dex, Con, Int, Ego, Pre, Body, OCV and DMCV.
Body functions as Hit Points.
OCV becomes a combined characteristic/level based to hit bonus.
DMCV becomes the basis for a saving throw system, along with Characteristic rolls.
Armour modifies to hit rolls.

Magic Users start with three spells, picked from a preprepared list, plus Read Magic, which is actually probably a skill. Only one spell can be cast per day. Enforce this through a VPP structure?

Clerics start with the Turn Undead talent, plus a VPP that allows them to pick, say, 1-3 spells per day from a preprepared list. They can pick any first level spells.

 

Rogues (Thieves) get a bunch of skills, plus a "Backstab" talent.

Fighters get whatever.

Balance all these to a common point total. It doesn't have to be a round number, although that would be nice.

At subsequent levels, characters get packages of equal point cost, depending on their class. There would be some correlation between their Hero-style experience points and what they get. You could ditch levels entirely of course, but I'm trying to make it as D&D like as possible.

Hide the crunchy bits behind premade stuff as much as possible, but allow access to the crunch for home brewer GMs.

Spend a couple of years refining this...

 

6 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

This is not a MMOG where you have to worry about PVP

 

PVP is of course a possibility. The notion that PCs are obliged to collaborate was a late addition to RPGs, although recommended for traditional style play.

[Old Man]

9 minutes ago, assault said:

 

Since I have nothing better to do:
Start with Hero. 

Ditch all characteristics except Str, Dex, Con, Int, Ego, Pre, Body, OCV and DMCV.
Body functions as Hit Points.
OCV becomes a combined characteristic/level based to hit bonus.
DMCV becomes the basis for a saving throw system, along with Characteristic rolls.
Armour modifies to hit rolls.

Magic Users start with three spells, picked from a preprepared list, plus Read Magic, which is actually probably a skill. Only one spell can be cast per day. Enforce this through a VPP structure?

Clerics start with the Turn Undead talent, plus a VPP that allows them to pick, say, 1-3 spells per day from a preprepared list. They can pick any first level spells.

 

Rogues (Thieves) get a bunch of skills, plus a "Backstab" talent.

Fighters get whatever.

Balance all these to a common point total. It doesn't have to be a round number, although that would be nice.

At subsequent levels, characters get packages of equal point cost, depending on their class. There would be some correlation between their Hero-style experience points and what they get. You could ditch levels entirely of course, but I'm trying to make it as D&D like as possible.

Hide the crunchy bits behind premade stuff as much as possible, but allow access to the crunch for home brewer GMs.

 

This is actually much more elaborate than I think a D&D points system will get to, if only because of what would drive the movement.  What's bothering the players, basically, is that certain subclasses radically outclass other subclasses, and certain spells radically outclass other spells.  (And that the top subclasses are all gishes but that just follows from the first imbalance.)  So you can actually see players on Reddit or wherever attempting to quantify spell effects, feats, and class abilities to try and balance them against each other. 

 

The big problem that they run into is that they'd have to make serious changes to what have become iconic features of D&D--features like Magic Missile, Sleep, druidic shapeshifting, and paladin healing--that became iconic because they are unbalanced and thus were extremely popular.  If they can overcome that one day, however, D&D might become playable.

 

(Actually Magic Missile did get nerfed a little but is still clearly superior to, say, Magic Mouth.)

[Ragitsu]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

The biggest flaws in any game come from trying to "balance" things.  Just no.  Get them reasonably close, and then let the GM balance things with the encounters, adventures and scenarios they create.  So the warriors are more powerful than the mages?  Run games that allow the strengths of the mages to shine.  Let everyone have their big moment and struggles.

This is not a MMOG where you have to worry about PVP and one class having it too easy while another struggles facing the same pre-programmed series of encounters and locations.  There's an actual human in charge who can adapt the game to what is in it.

 

Yes, sir. This insistence on placing "balance" on a pedestal is groan-worthy at best.

[Scott Ruggels]

Absolutely.  D&D is what it is, and will never be balanced.


(...Gishes?)

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Absolutely.  D&D is what it is, and will never be balanced.


(...Gishes?)

 

Any character that can wear armor, swing swords, and sling spells.  Paladins, arcane knights, hexblade warlocks, tempest/war clerics, and some other more recent variants I'm forgetting.

[Cygnia]

https://screenrant.com/dungeons-dragons-gish-character-build-meaning-magic-warrior/

[unclevlad]

I'm glad I'm out of D&D these days...and Magic, altho that was probably more of a phase than anything else.  It's kinda funny:  many of us burned out on Magic when

a)  keeping up just got to be ridiculously too expensive

b)  it got to be frustrating, trying to get the rarer cards (how much did I sink into Legends?  TOOOOOO DAMN MUCH)

c)  it became too much of a power play...people who did dump a ton of money, probably also doing a lot of trading, weren't fun to play against.  

 

It's also not a very good group game, which is the area where tabletop RPGs excel.  

[Ninja-Bear]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:20 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

Absolutely.  D&D is what it is, and will never be balanced.


(...Gishes?)

And perhaps that at least is the OSR charm. Instead of changing what it is, embrace it for what it is. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

It's also not a very good group game, which is the area where tabletop RPGs excel.

  

We used to play group MTG but I'm with you and Duke, it is very frustrating to me that card games stole so much air from the room where RPGs were played.

[Old Man]

14 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I'm glad I'm out of D&D these days...and Magic, altho that was probably more of a phase than anything else.  It's kinda funny:  many of us burned out on Magic when

a)  keeping up just got to be ridiculously too expensive

b)  it got to be frustrating, trying to get the rarer cards (how much did I sink into Legends?  TOOOOOO DAMN MUCH)

c)  it became too much of a power play...people who did dump a ton of money, probably also doing a lot of trading, weren't fun to play against.  

 

It's also not a very good group game, which is the area where tabletop RPGs excel.  

 

I've mentioned this here before but I missed MtG by a week.  One week, on my weekly visit to the FLGS, a couple of my friends were opening their first decks of this new card game that had just come out.  I missed my next weekly visit.  The week after that there were no MtG cards available to buy in the state.  About a year or so later, one of those friends had to declare bankruptcy to resolve his credit card debt from buying MtG cards.

 

I don't really resent MtG or CCGs for blowing up the way they did.  I've spent a lot of time and money on CCGs like Shadowfist and Dune, though these were better multiplayer games and weren't as pay-to-win than MtG was.  And CCGs generally do not have the scheduling and GMing problems that RPGs do.  Plus there is a segment of the gaming population that is really uncomfortable with the improv aspect of RPGs.

 

RPGs are of course not as expensive as CCGs, but I've noticed that class based RPGs have a business advantage over Hero in that you can sell new class splatbooks forever.  In a business sense, class based systems are a feature, not a bug.

[Scott Ruggels]

33 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I don't really resent MtG or CCGs for blowing up the way they did.  I've spent a lot of time and money on CCGs like Shadowfist and Dune, though these were better multiplayer games and weren't as pay-to-win than MtG was.  And CCGs generally do not have the scheduling and GMing problems that RPGs do.  Plus there is a segment of the gaming population that is really uncomfortable with the improv aspect of RPGs.

 

Oh, I have great resentment against CCG's, especially Magic, as it sucked all the money out of the TTRPG hobby.  Of the three companies I was working for at the time as an illustrator. Two of them suspended operations (one not to recover), and the third, Hero got sold a number  of times, and projects were cancelled. So I had to shift employment to video games. I was lucky that I still had local games to play in, due to the disdain most of us had for the card players, but table space in FLGS, evaporated. As I said, great resentment!

 

33 minutes ago, Old Man said:

RPGs are of course not as expensive as CCGs, but I've noticed that class based RPGs have a business advantage over Hero in that you can sell new class splatbooks forever.  In a business sense, class based systems are a feature, not a bug.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

RPGs are of course not as expensive as CCGs, but I've noticed that class based RPGs have a business advantage over Hero in that you can sell new class splatbooks forever.  In a business sense, class based systems are a feature, not a bug.

 

I think Hero can do this too, in a different way.  There are a kabillion different genres and settings that can be set up and sold for Hero, and then support and adventures for them, kind of like Rifts etc did.  Its just a question of will, money, and talent being available.  I mean, if I had the health, I'd pump out like 3-4 books a year the hell with how well they sold.  Shelf space is king.

[Asperion]

I believe that WOTC has made many positive changes to the system.  Opening character creation for more diversity,  creating greater noncombat opportunities,  streamlining combat are all positive in my opinion.  However,  since they are making it so that one can only get (and play) through their approved media might be such a strong negative that it could drive players toward other games (non-WOTC) effectively destroying their product. 

[Khymeria]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:34 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

until I can teach the crows in the Redwood free in my back yard to play TTRPGs) 

Northern California? San Francisco here. 

[Khymeria]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:10 AM, assault said:

The interesting question here is "what stops people from playing Hero?"

 

From the perspective of somebody who has worked on both WotC products for 5E and Hero System 6E, I think I have a pretty unique perspective on this. Obviously Hero System has a bit more upfront intellectual investment on character creation but once you learn it, that part is over. D&D constantly has some new mechanic that is independent in function from the system, all spells are different with interpretable text for example. So complexity is a bit more with Hero but levels out on a timeline. Players don’t get to that part has been the feedback I’ve received because often Hero players seem to be viewed as not very nice, not warm, not friendly, not inviting, and sometimes just flat out argumentative. I personally have pointed this out when someone asks a question on a Facebook page and the response is “the book is your friend” and I point out the book is hundreds and hundreds of pages and if they helped the player might have more interest in the system, gatekeeping like Gollum with a ring is s bad look. I wrote Hero System Book of Templates I and II so a player would have an easier time learning the creation process by reverse engineering the template they were familiar with, since help had seem hard to find. 

[Ragitsu]

6 hours ago, Asperion said:

Opening character creation for more diversity

 

Meaning?