Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Ranxerox]

"In case you couldn’t tell, this story is as real as Jonah Hill playing Cable in the Deadpool sequel. It isn’t."

 

Well, of course that isn't true.  Keira Knightley going to play Cable.  He said so in the after credits scene.  This is good, since this is probably the only thing they could do with Cable to make me interested in the character.

[Bazza]

Worth a shot.

[Bazza]

[L. Marcus]

Only Infinity War. I have no interest in the DC movies.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I'm not really very impressed with Iron Fist from what I've seen so far. The dialog is terrible, there are too many cheesy kung fu movie scenes of a fight just to have a fight (get away from that door. No! Then lets fight!). Danny is not nearly as good as he should be -- he should wipe the floor with mooks, not exchange blows for several minutes. He's unstable and bizarrely irrational for someone who spent a long time learning discipline and martial arts. Just an underwhelming series from what I've seen.

 

And yeah, the martial arts are a bit underwhelming.

That was my problem with it....the lack of good Martial Choreography. That was the one thing they NEEDED to get right. And some of the dialogue was indeed weak, but I felt the same about Luke Cage and DD season 2. The basic story was solid, and Rand's inconsistent personality didnt bother me. His unstable emotional state is magnified by the torrent of chi flowing through his system from the Iron Fist. (Represented by the flashes he has when the camera shakes and he grabs his head) the whole reason he left K'un Lun was to figure out what happend with his parents and the uncertainty of it was preventing him from centering himself and balancing his chi. So his behavior deteriorating over the course of the show makes sense.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Compare the Spider Man: Homecoming Trailer, and the Justice League Trailer.

 

Spider Man is about character. Justice League is about action.

 

Once again Marvel wins again.

I disagree.

 

I thought the Justice League trailer was stronger. I feel the Spiderman trailers have had tone issues.

[DasBroot]

Marisa Tomei Weighs In On Playing A Younger Aunt May In Spider-Man: Homecoming

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/marisa-tomei-weighs-playing-younger-aunt-spiderman-homecoming/

 

“You can imagine my horror when I was cast and I started doing the research, but then I thought “well, I’m going to go with it” and I actually made a case to go, to age me up, but no they didn’t do it.”

-- Marisa Tomei

 

In my opinion both she (52) and Sally Field (65 when Amazing first came out) are better fits for an 'aunt' to a teenager anyways (to be the Aunt May we all know and love the Parkers would have had to be in their late 40s when they had Peter, with May being 10 to 15 years older than them.  It's certainly POSSIBLE but it's not likely.)

[Christopher R Taylor]

I prefer Aunt May being elderly, as depicted in the comics.  The lady that played her in the Raimi Spider-Man films (Rosemary Harris) was perfect, as was most of the casting.  Raimi had a wonderful feel for the character and the setting, too bad the studio stomped on his vision so hard in the third film.

[Pattern Ghost]

In my opinion both she (52) and Sally Field (65 when Amazing first came out) are better fits for an 'aunt' to a teenager anyways (to be the Aunt May we all know and love the Parkers would have had to be in their late 40s when they had Peter, with May being 10 to 15 years older than them.  It's certainly POSSIBLE but it's not likely.)

 

My mother was the 7th of 9 siblings (holy crap, I just realized my mother is 7 of 9!), and her oldest sister was older than my father's mother. So, it's possible for aunts to be a lot older than someone's parents. Of course, there's no indication that Peter's parents came from a big family, so it does look a bit odd. On the third hand, May could be a great aunt, which is what I just kind of mentally filled in over the years.

[BoloOfEarth]

You don't need a large number of kids to have a decent span of time between siblings.  My mom had two kids (from a prior marriage) who were in their teens when I was born.

 

And my dad was in his 40s when I was born; he retired just after I graduated high school and started college.

 

I'm pretty sure they state that Ben and Peter's dad were brothers, so May can't really be a great-aunt.  An excellent aunt, maybe, but not a great-aunt. 

[DasBroot]

They did. Ben was Richard's 'older' brother.  

 

That's where they've always left it, and it's really probably good enough.

 

Still... super old Aunt May is a little extreme. But a great character.

[zslane]

...the whole reason he left K'un Lun was to figure out what happend with his parents and the uncertainty of it was preventing him from centering himself and balancing his chi. So his behavior deteriorating over the course of the show makes sense.

 

This is something that has bothered me about this version of Danny Rand. I haven't seen the entire season yet, but I still can't shake the belief that after fifteen years of intense training with mystical monks, learning to focus his chi to the point where he can do the things he does with it, culminating in a one-on-one fight with a friggin' dragon, Danny should have mourned and processed the loss of his parents already. The fact that it leads him to do any of the things he does in this show makes zero sense to me based on what I expect from this character.

 

And this made me realize just how obsessed superhero creators/writers seem to be with orphaned kids becoming heroes and being driven, as adults, by their childhood trauma. It has gone way beyond cliché at this point. Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Barry Allen[*], Superman and Supergirl, Peter Parker, Tony Stark[**], Matt Murdock, Elektra, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Danny Rand, and probably Romanov and Wanda/Piotr. We make fun of how much mileage Batman's writers have gotten out of the motivating effect of witnessing his parent's murder as a child, but the truth is there is quite the parade of characters who have had this overused background element (being orphaned) dumped on them, and after the fourth of fifth such character, it just doesn't ring with dramatic authenticity anymore.

 

[*] In the CW version, at least, he lost his mom as a child and proceeded to do a lot of really dumb things simply because he simply never processed it as he grew up. [**] Tony was in college when his parents were murdered, but it was clearly sufficiently traumatizing that Zemo was able to use it, and it alone, as the lynchpin for his gambit to irreparably divide the Avengers.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Still... super old Aunt May is a little extreme. But a great character.

 

 

Its kind of an artifact from the time.  In the 1960s, a 60 year old was white haired and bent.  You were old at that age.  Now its not too old, still pretty vital and vigorous.  But Marisa Tomei is too hot and young, no matter how you paint it.  I don't mind reinterpreting the source material to some degree, but making Aunt May someone Iron Man wants to date, that's a change too far.

[zslane]

Wasn't Doc Oc always hitting on poor old Aunt May? He didn't strike me as that old either.

 

Regardless of the exact shape of the Parker family tree, I think the original idea was for Peter to be raised by the equivalent of grandparents. Aunt May and Uncle Ben were meant to be seen as kind, elderly caretakers, which we typically decode as grandparents in our culture. Marisa Tomei may be my age in real life, but they are not coding her as a grandparent, but as an actual aunt, which by the (statistical) norms of our society would put her in her 40s if Peter Parker is in his teens.

 

I don't have any problem with either approach. Peter Parker can be raised by grandparents or he can be raised by a MILFy aunt. As long as the characters are engaging and the stories are well told, a little bit of reimagining here and there isn't so bad in my book. At least they let Spidey keep his iconic blue-and-red spandex-y costume. Gritty reality can suck it!

[Pattern Ghost]

They're just using the Ultimate version of Aunt May. The MCU has drawn a lot of other stuff from the Ultimate titles, and done well with it, so I don't mind. As long as the movie's good.

[Doc Shadow]

I always figured Richard Parker as a "change-of-life" baby for his parents, with Ben being 15 or 20 years older. If Pete was born when Richard and Mary were about 30, then Ben and May would have been around 45 - 50 at the time and would now be about 66 give or take 5 years depending on where we are in Spiderman's career. Even if we use that dumb idea that Peter was 16 at the start of his career. He wasn't, he had just turned 18 and was in his senior year in high school. 

[Old Man]

There are siblings in my family tree with a twenty-year age difference so an older Aunt May is hardly that unusual.  On the other hand, it's a sign of the consistent quality of MCU films when people are complaining that Marisa Tomei was cast somewhere.  It's like we have to try sooooo hard to find something to criticize.

[Bazza]

My mother was the 7th of 9 siblings (holy crap, I just realized my mother is 7 of 9!),

Son of Borg.

[drunkonduty]

I just started watching Iron Fist last night.

 

It's fine. Don't know what all the complaining is about.

I don't think it's as good Daredevil, Jessica Jones or Luke Cage but hell, I'm only 3 eps. in.

 

I agree that the character driven by the death of their parents thing is getting old. As is the billionaire thing. As is the white guy goes to <insert exotic place here> and becomes the greatest master of <exotic skills here>. But hey, it's all in the premise, I can live with it if it's done well. And I rate as above average. 

 

Danny Rand is kinda bland. But the supporting characters are shaping up pretty interesting. The plot is thickening nicely. It's got the obligatory tie ins with the other Netflix shows (Jeri Hogarth, yay!) Overall, pretty happy.

[drunkonduty]

Oh and Marissa Tomei as Aunt May: awesome!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Marvel Execs: oops, we kinda messed up with our push for diversity at the cost of story and established, beloved characters.

 

I don't think people have a problem with a black girl as a superhero, I think they have a problem with Iron Man being replaced with a black girl.  Come up with something new, don't just make Thor a girl and then pose showing off your virtue flag.

[Old Man]

That gets back to the dilemma we discussed here earlier, which is that Marvel has lots of established branded characters that are white males, and few that are not.  So they're stuck--they can continue to field a white male lineup that has brand recognition but is not diverse (and brings in no new readers), or they can publish new characters that are diverse but have no name recognition.  Or they can do what they've been doing for decades, which is change up who wears the spider-suit/armor/hammer/shield every now and then.  Seriously Mjolnir was carried by a K'Kree for a decade, but a girl picks it up and suddenly people are clutching their pearls?  Even the article points out that the "forced" diversity is better for the FLCS' bottom line.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Seriously Mjolnir was carried by a K'Kree for a decade, but a girl picks it up and suddenly people are clutching their pearls?

 

Because Thor also carried the hammer.  See, Thorette PLUS Thor: cool, tell me the story.  Delete Thor and put a girl in his place to check off a diversity worksheet?  Not so cool.  Do it with several other characters at the same time?  Readers walking away...

 

 Even the article points out that the "forced" diversity is better for the FLCS' bottom line.

 

They specifically stated their sales have declined for half a year.  And that's down from already modest sales.

 

I have to respond to this:

 

they can continue to field a white male lineup that has brand recognition but is not diverse (and brings in no new readers)

What about their current crop of heroes makes them unable to bring in new readers?  Do you think nobody wants to read anything with white males?  Or that non-white-males will only read non-white-male content?

 

Tony was in college when his parents were murdered, but it was clearly sufficiently traumatizing that Zemo was able to use it, and it alone, as the lynchpin for his gambit to irreparably divide the Avengers.

 

He was perfectly fine with it until they needed something to make him attack Captain America over.  Seriously, he didn't even like his dad in Iron Man 2.

[Lord Liaden]

He was perfectly fine with it until they needed something to make him attack Captain America over.  Seriously, he didn't even like his dad in Iron Man 2.

 

I feel you're overlooking Tony's response when Cap protests that Bucky was under HYDRA's control, and not responsible: "I don't care. He killed my mom."

[drunkonduty]

That article points out that sales are down over a fairly short period. No-one knows why.

 

I would suggest an endless pile of cross-over events and title explosion. By title explosion I mean a pile of different titles supposedly about the same people... 4 or so Avengers titles. The new Xmen line is going to have 4ish group books plus several solo titles. I can't keep track of how many Spidermans there are. And I mean comics, not characters (is there 3 of the character at the moment? With number of books out the wazoo?) Seriously, if I want to read Doc. Strange I don't want to have choose between 3 or 4(?) titles while I work out which is the "real" one.

 

Should also point out that (according to the article) the word from the local shops suggests that more people are coming in to buy the more diverse titles. They may only be interested in one title. Well, that's cool. One sale is better than none. And of course over time interest may increase. Or it may vanish. That's business. But what we can say is that the chance to increase sales (via the creation of a new demographic of comic readers) is better than watching sales decline over time, which is what was happening to comic sales over all in the not so distant past.

 

As for Jane Foster taking up the mantle of Thor, well that's what brought me back to reading comics. And it's a good book. Lots of thundering fun.

 

OH! In case this latest round of fear of non-white, male characters was inspired by my reference to "white guy goes to..." in my above post about Iron Fist, I was referring specifically to the trope of Mighty Whitey. Here's a link to TVtropes for a more thorough explanation.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MightyWhitey

 

Go on, click it. What else do you have to do today?