DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[Pattern Ghost]

Looks like Cavill is making room in his schedule to continue as Superman:

 

The Witcher Renewed for Season 4 by Netflix, Liam Hemsworth to Replace Henry Cavill as Geralt of Rivia

[Christopher R Taylor]

Probably a good time to step out of the role after the dumb remarks from the writers.

[slikmar]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Probably a good time to step out of the role after the dumb remarks from the writers.

I agree that sometimes you need people who understand the original stuff isnt perfect, but to actively dislike it is stupid. Why are you on this job?

2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Looks like Cavill is making room in his schedule to continue as Superman:

 

The Witcher Renewed for Season 4 by Netflix, Liam Hemsworth to Replace Henry Cavill as Geralt of Rivia

First, sounds like the split for Cavill was amicable and that Liam understands the character and roll he is stepping into. Time will tell.

[Pattern Ghost]

21 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Probably a good time to step out of the role after the dumb remarks from the writers.

 

I don't think it really matters what the writers think of the books, as long as the show is good and retains what people like about the source material. My understanding is that the quality of the writing in the original stories and books is fairly mediocre anyway, so they may not be wrong. (The books may be the best thing since sliced bread, as far as I know. I've yet to check them out, though I intend to.)

[unclevlad]

When the writers actively dislike the source, they're far more likely to try to reconstruct it.  How often does that work?  And even if they can't get their way, it makes for terrible team dynamics...because it shows.

 

Oh, I can definitely believe the writing's not exactly top-drawer.  The original stories came from Polish fantasy...how many of us have ever read those?  So I'd presume that the characters are as per the video games.  Characterization is VERY likely to be......thin.  Quite plausibly less than you need.  That said:  fine, there's lots to expand, but that doesn't mean radical departures.

[slikmar]

14 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

When the writers actively dislike the source, they're far more likely to try to reconstruct it.  How often does that work?  And even if they can't get their way, it makes for terrible team dynamics...because it shows.

 

Oh, I can definitely believe the writing's not exactly top-drawer.  The original stories came from Polish fantasy...how many of us have ever read those?  So I'd presume that the characters are as per the video games.  Characterization is VERY likely to be......thin.  Quite plausibly less than you need.  That said:  fine, there's lots to expand, but that doesn't mean radical departures.

I read them. the characterizations are actually somewhat different then the video games, but deeper. Geralt doesn't have as much outside magic, its much more potions and stuff. And the first book is really a lot of short stories as is the last, the middle 3 are a trilogy. They are decent, not great, but worth the read. But a lot of what makes them what they are needs to be in the show and was, at least season 1.

[Pattern Ghost]

26 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

When the writers actively dislike the source, they're far more likely to try to reconstruct it. 

 

Re-read the first sentence of my post. I said if it doesn't affect the quality of the show. Team dynamics are another matter. I doubt that someone getting paid millions to be the lead actor in a show is going to quit because someone in the writer's room disrespects the source material if it doesn't reflect on the end product. In the case of the Witcher, I've only heard that it sticks pretty closely to the original stories. The show's runners are the ones who guide the direction of the show. If Bob the Naysayer from the writer's bullpen is disruptive because he doesn't like the original material, he doesn't necessarily impact the quality of the product, just annoys people. I seriously doubt Bob the Naysayer has any impact on the lead actor's career decisions.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I seriously doubt Bob the Naysayer has any impact on the lead actor's career decisions.

 

It depends.  As the lead actor he is a lot more close to the writer's room and attitudes, and hence knows better where the show is going and what is likely to be asked of him as an actor: are they getting Final Game of Thrones-level stupid and annoying?  Are they taking the show in a strange different direction?  Are they going to make him do stupid or obnoxious stuff because they figure they can do it better?  Maybe its time to find another job.

[slikmar]

19 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

are they getting Final Game of Thrones-level stupid and annoying?

I blame Martin for part of this. at the time the show started filming, he had only written through book 4 or 5. Anything after that was not based on his books. Problem was, they started filming, IMO, thinking he would be able to finish last few books (something he still hasn't done), despite the fact he seemed to take 5 years to finish even one book. So I blame him for his slow process (as I said, he still hasn't finished the last few books) and partly on the show runners for making that assumption, if they did. So any stupidity after season 5 is on them, prior to that is probably on him.

[Grailknight]

6 hours ago, unclevlad said:

When the writers actively dislike the source, they're far more likely to try to reconstruct it.  How often does that work?  

 

Best example : Wheel of Time. After that first season there's no way to tell the rest of the story as anything close to the books.

 

[Pattern Ghost]

10 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

It depends.  As the lead actor he is a lot more close to the writer's room and attitudes, and hence knows better where the show is going and what is likely to be asked of him as an actor: are they getting Final Game of Thrones-level stupid and annoying?  Are they taking the show in a strange different direction?  Are they going to make him do stupid or obnoxious stuff because they figure they can do it better?  Maybe its time to find another job.

 

point

 

================/Squishedtogetherpostdivider/============================================

 

 

9 hours ago, slikmar said:

despite the fact he seemed to take 5 years to finish even one book

 

This puts it on the production company/show runners. They chose to take a huge risk of running out of material. Martin was already proven not reliable.

[Pariah]

I haven't seen it yet, but I found this analysis interesting.

 

‘Black Adam’ Proves It’s Time for Edgy Superhero Movies to Die

 

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Quote

The movie-going audience that has soaked in Black Adam since it opened Oct. 21 are likely unfamiliar with the character’s presence within the DC mythos. This has been a consistent problem throughout the superhero boom, as studios quickly ran dry of their headlining agents (Superman, Iron Man, and so on) and have been forced to retreat deep into the back-issues in order to summon up fresh meat at the box office.

 

I don't think that's the case at all. The are using some 'lesser known' characters because they have less baggage, fewer expectations. GotG (frex) was an experiment that got the go-ahead despite being very risky, so they got to use less-beloved properties. Not because they ran out of ideas. This is just nonsense. 

 

And that's not even addressing the notion that Black Adam and Hawkman are 'unknowns.' 

[Pariah]

9 minutes ago, Logan.1179 said:

And that's not even addressing the notion that Black Adam and Hawkman are 'unknowns.' 

 

For us, sure. The idea that Hawkman or Black Adam are unknowns is preposterous. 

 

But think back to a time BIM (Before Iron Man). What superheroes did the mundane general public really know? Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Captain American, maybe some of the X-Men.  Some of the older folks might remember the SuperFriends or Iceman and Firestar from cartoons when they were young; some who are even older might remember Shazam, the mighty Isis, or even Electra-Woman and Dyna-Girl. 

 

But it seems unlikely that most people are going to have any idea who Black Adam or Hawkman are if they haven't been following the comics. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

yeah Black Adam is pretty C-list even for Superhero fans.  Not as obscure as the Eternals or Morbius, but pretty lesser known.  For the general public, he and Hawkman are utterly unfamiliar.  The entire Justice Society is full of "who??" characters for the general public, but that's fine.  Nobody knew who Blade was but hardcore Marvel Fans before the movie.  Almost nobody but hardcore indy comic fans knew who The Crow was.

[Grailknight]

5 hours ago, Pariah said:

I haven't seen it yet, but I found this analysis interesting.

 

‘Black Adam’ Proves It’s Time for Edgy Superhero Movies to Die

 

 

Wow, this reviewer really doesn't get it.

 

He shows his ignorance of comics right away right away by calling Black Adam and Hawkman  obscure characters and then his bias by saying that DC shouldn't try because Marvel has already done that better with GotG. Says that they wasted The Rock when The Rock campaigned for this role for years so he could play this character. Then pushes his ongoing premise that edginess in superhero movies is dead and out of place because, Moribus, a truly obscure Marvel movie character wasn't good despite having Leto as lead.

 

I guess writing quality is down across all industries related to comics.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Unfortunately Black Adam just this last weekend made as much as it supposedly cost to film so it is extremely unlikely to make any money.  It did produce goodwill with fans and gave the DCCU a sort of re-boot, with a more proper seeming Superman showing up, but I'm not convinced that's going to be enough to save the franchise.

[Grailknight]

Well, first off they have to actually make some movies and release them. All the good will and momentum of WW 1, Aquaman and Shazam! were wasted by having no follow ups ready to go except the pretty weak WW2, the even weaker Harley Quinn movie and Joker(Which is not part of the DECU.).

 

The batman was an excellent show though and Black Adam is better than I expected given it's long development time. A couple more like these two will have them up and running.

[Pattern Ghost]

2 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Moribus, a truly obscure Marvel movie character wasn't good despite having Leto as lead

 

I thought they did a decent job with Morbius, but it suffered for being an origin story movie and a very simplistic plot. There wasn't anything new about it, but it wasn't awful.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Cavill in a recent interview noted that he's a huge dork and lore loyalist who kept annoying the writers and Witcher show runners with points about the character and the setting, and admitting that's at least part of why he left the show.  Which gives me some hope with Superman because I am confident he was not happy with Snyder's dark, grim, and angry Superman.  And now he has leverage, which he did not have in the first two movies.

[Hermit]

On 10/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, Hermit said:

While I enjoy a lot of Dwayne Johnson movies  ...., he's not why I want to see Black Adam.  Rather it is his co stars in JSA roles that have me hoping I'll enjoy it at least as a flick. I enjoyed Aldis Hodge in the Leverage TV show a GREAT deal , hope Hawkman gets some moments. And Pierce Bronson? I've enjoyed his stuff since the 80s and he's been the Bond of one of my favorite movies of the Franchise and I think he's gonna NAIL it as Dr. Fate!

 

I finally saw it. A fun flawed movie, but I was very pleased with the JSA part. Dr. Fate under Bronson was perfection, but Aldis held his own as Hawkman. In fact, I rather enjoyed the chemistry between the two characters. The rookie heroes had promise and I found em likable enough.

 

Dwayne Johnson was Dwayne Johnson, not his worst acting, not his best... but as I like the guy fine, not a detraction. I think I went in with low expectations so that helped , but I was indeed expecting a 5 out of 10, and instead it came across like a 7.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

I mostly echo your points. The interactions between the members of the JSA were the highlight of the movie for me. All of them were well defined and given depth and shading. Pierce Brosnan oozes charisma and sagacity as Dr. Fate, while this is by far the most impressive and formidable depiction of Hawkman I've seen for any medium.

 

The action was the kind of four-color spectacle I look for in superhero movies. I know some people prefer more realism, but there are other genres that give us that. I really got the impression that these are some of the mightiest supers on Earth.

 

One of the biggest disappointments for me was Dwayne Johnson. He of course pulled off the physical impressiveness and menace you'd expect, but otherwise he very much under-performed Black Adam. He maintained a hard, cold exterior even in scenes that would imply he was going through wider emotions. That made it harder for me to relate to and sympathize with Adam. I've seen that Johnson has more range as an actor. Normally I'd attribute that kind of performance to the director's choice, but given Johnson's clout I'm not sure in this case.

 

There were a few hyper-competent normals in the movie that I found distracting, particularly the "kid," who annoyed me as much as kid protagonists usually do; although to be fair, there was a thematic reason for him. The background of the other antagonist (no spoiler) could have been set up better IMHO.

 

Overall, while it's not a great movie, as a superhero fan I enjoyed it a lot. Its style is very much classic comic-book, and if you like that you should have fun with it.

[BoloOfEarth]

45 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Overall, while it's not a great movie, as a superhero fan I enjoyed it a lot. Its style is very much classic comic-book, and if you like that you should have fun with it.

 

Do you think a superhero fan who's not a DC fan, and has no clue about these particular characters, will enjoy it?   I've never been a huge DC fan, and know next to nothing about Black Adam, Dr. Fate, Hawkman, and the JSA.

[Lord Liaden]

You get quite enough about Black Adam's past to know who and what he is. Dr. Fate's past is alluded to sufficiently that you can appreciate his character, even if you aren't shown all the details. Hawkman is given very little background, but his personality, motivation, and powers are depicted so graphically, you don't really need it. Atom Smasher and Cyclone are rookies, and the film efficiently provides all you have to know about them. Almost all the other characters are just people, there to serve the story.

 

There are also a few references to other DC characters, and to past movies featuring them, that are, again, helpful but not crucial to know. I would say that knowing these characters from the comics and movies would probably enhance your enjoyment of the film, but isn't necessary to do so. None of them are exactly like their earlier incarnations, so you can treat this movie as its own thing.

[unclevlad]

11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

One of the biggest disappointments for me was Dwayne Johnson. He of course pulled off the physical impressiveness and menace you'd expect, but otherwise he very much under-performed Black Adam. He maintained a hard, cold exterior even in scenes that would imply he was going through wider emotions. That made it harder for me to relate to and sympathize with Adam. I've seen that Johnson has more range as an actor. Normally I'd attribute that kind of performance to the director's choice, but given Johnson's clout I'm not sure in this case.

 

From the comments in many of the negative reviews I read, I think this was their issue...and they're tired of it.  It was like they felt he just went through the motions, IIRC.  Their focus is on things like the acting, and the overall story coherence...not whether it's true to the source, since few of them would be.  

 

Wakanda Forever on Friday.  No way I'll go first weekend, so please, no spoilers for a while.   The week after...pretty likely.  3 hours again...well, one place has a 1:30 showing, and another has a 2 PM.  Those both work pretty well.