Scott Ruggels Posted September 21, 2022 Report Share Posted September 21, 2022 6 hours ago, unclevlad said: Shock and awe strictly used to generate buzz. Yes, usually instigated by the current editors, and they have their go to, for established DC Characters, which is sexual stunt casting, which generates a ton of Buzz, and allows the "Fan Baiting" marketing strategy to work, without an expenditure of company finds, nby letting YouTube and the news outlets to spread the controversy. This has not translated to sales, though, and the circulation continues to contract 6 hours ago, unclevlad said: I'll disagree with the motive...altho grant, that might be the lip service used. Non-established writers are: --LOTS cheaper --much more readily controlled. They don't have the clout to stand up to moronic execs who want some harebrained ideas of their own. To borrow from Jubal Harshaw: “You have to give an editor something to change, or he gets frustrated. After he pees in it himself, he likes the flavor much better, so he buys it.” It's worse. They got rid of DiDio to avoid another New 52, but even without him, they were so bereft of ideas, they went with it anyway. THe sober old men of Julie Schwarz's day are long gone, replaced by poorly paid college kids given a stepping stone to their Hollywood dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted September 21, 2022 Report Share Posted September 21, 2022 Dan Didio the man who ruined Reboot, ruined DC Comics. Who knew? CES Scott Ruggels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Black Adam has earned around 60 million its first weekend, not tremendous, but a bit better than Shazam did but on a few more screens. BA cost around $185-200 million to make so it has to really catch on overseas to make good money. But The Rock is way more popular overseas than he is domestically in the USA, so maybe they can pull it off. But I think probably it would be smarter to not spend quite so much on these movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Why not? Spend 200 million, break even if it sucks, make 400+ if it's average or 800-1,200 if you hit the jackpot . Not seeing the downside here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 WIth the expense of distribution and publicity, the rule of thumb is double the base filming cost to break even. If your industry requires nearly half a billion to start to make money its probably not a very smart business model. Yes, there have been some gigantic wins, but they are much less than a dozen out of how many superhero movies? Its like playing the lottery with your business earnings for six months: but I might win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: WIth the expense of distribution and publicity, the rule of thumb is double the base filming cost to break even. If your industry requires nearly half a billion to start to make money its probably not a very smart business model. Yes, there have been some gigantic wins, but they are much less than a dozen out of how many superhero movies? Its like playing the lottery with your business earnings for six months: but I might win! But that holds for quite a few movie types. Star Wars movies run HOW much these days? Star Trek...I suspect not as bad but they aren't cheap. Dune was $165M, reportedly. F&F 9 was over $200M, but that was pretty much expected to pull in a *bundle*...I believe that's one of the highest-grossing franchises in movie history. What are you gonna make for $100M? That's going to have large-scale appeal? Knives Out! did just fine...and then some...on a much smaller budget. But then, you have to be careful...budget doesn't tell the whole story. Robert Downey came out *better* than anyone else in the MCU because he took a lower base pay...but a percentage of the gross. The Knives Out! cast was, by and large, in a similar position. It is an issue, tho. I believe the exceptional level of risk and the fundamental stakes, are why so many movies retread familiar ground. They can't bomb that badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 Oh my. From the Atlantic's review of Black Adam, in re Dwayne Johnson: Quote Early in his career, as he made the leap from professional wrestling to movie stardom, he could be a playful and bombastic screen presence; now he seems to insist on playing an endless stream of charisma-free, square-jawed Terminator knockoffs. As you can imagine from that, they were not impressed. Reviews appear to be a mixed bag, but the most common seem lukewarm. "Derivative" might be the most common theme I saw, said in one manner or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 Reviewers do not seem to be enthused, but they don't seem to hate it either. I plan on seeing it this Friday, so we'll see. I suspect that the reviewers went in thinking its going to be Avengers when that is not at all what this character is about. Quote But that holds for quite a few movie types. It does, and my concern holds for them all as well. Hollywood is used to being pretty sloppy with its budgets and spending an awful lot where it does not need to. That's got to change, I think, for them to have a realistic future. I don't want them to go cheap, I just want to see them roll it back a bit. Part of why Jaws worked so well was that they were forced to find ways to do it without the easy, expensive way. A lot of really great movies were squeezed pretty hard in budgets. Maybe they can cut back on the commissary, not pay people quite so much, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said: It does, and my concern holds for them all as well. Hollywood is used to being pretty sloppy with its budgets and spending an awful lot where it does not need to. That's got to change, I think, for them to have a realistic future. I don't want them to go cheap, I just want to see them roll it back a bit. Part of why Jaws worked so well was that they were forced to find ways to do it without the easy, expensive way. A lot of really great movies were squeezed pretty hard in budgets. Maybe they can cut back on the commissary, not pay people quite so much, etc. Largely not gonna happen. Johnson's salary for Black Adam is reportedly $22.5M. After that, for any action movie in any sub-genre, you've got to nail the SFX, and those are never cheap. And, you can't NOT do it; the bar's been set too high by far, far too many films. There are parallels between actors and athletes in team sports. Salaries for the big names only continue to explode...but it also applies to the backup wide receivers, to the utility infielders...a little bit of success translates to getting paid quite nicely. This also holds for directors...they're the head coaches, and the known quantities get bigger bucks. On-set staffing? I believe Hollywood is mostly a union shop, so there's LOTS of people who are, shall we say, less than fully utilized. But exceptionally well compensated.... So, yeah, there's probably about as much excess fat as on bargain-bin bacon, but trimming it is a bit tricky......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Ruggels Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 Marketing budgets are usually about equal to the production budget of Hollywood films. If the budget for Black Adam is $200 Million, the marketing and advertising budget will be about equal. Break even will have to be $400 million, world wide. Profitable would have to be $500 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 2 hours ago, unclevlad said: As you can imagine from that, they were not impressed. Anyone thinking Black Adam would be either cheerful or bombastic is probably not really a genre fan. If they're going to knock him for picking that role, why are they even reviewing the movie? Reviews should discuss how well he portrays the character, not the reviewer's viewing preferences. slikmar, Hermit and Christopher R Taylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 10 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said: Anyone thinking Black Adam would be either cheerful or bombastic is probably not really a genre fan. If they're going to knock him for picking that role, why are they even reviewing the movie? Reviews should discuss how well he portrays the character, not the reviewer's viewing preferences. A reviewer's preferences will always come into the review, but better reviewers are able to judge based upon merits of the genre. Roger Ebert was very good at rating a movie on its merits as a member of its genre (he started out in the SF fanzine scene), and I could usually count on his reviews to identify movies that I'd like. His goal always seemed to be to offer advice, rather than to dictate tastes. Music critic Robert Cristgau, on the other hand, wants to tell you that you're listening to it wrong. His reviews often have an extreme bias concerning certain genres, and his tone is disdainful for those who would disagree. I don't usually value Cristgau's pronouncements when choosing music, though they are often a form of amusement for me when I encounter them for a favorite album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 While I enjoy a lot of Dwayne Johnson movies ...., he's not why I want to see Black Adam. Rather it is his co stars in JSA roles that have me hoping I'll enjoy it at least as a flick. I enjoyed Aldis Hodge in the Leverage TV show a GREAT deal , hope Hawkman gets some moments. And Pierce Bronson? I've enjoyed his stuff since the 80s and he's been the Bond of one of my favorite movies of the Franchise and I think he's gonna NAIL it as Dr. Fate! slikmar, Starlord and Ternaugh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 10:39 AM, Christopher R Taylor said: Black Adam has earned around 60 million its first weekend, not tremendous, but a bit better than Shazam did but on a few more screens. BA cost around $185-200 million to make so it has to really catch on overseas to make good money. But The Rock is way more popular overseas than he is domestically in the USA, so maybe they can pull it off. But I think probably it would be smarter to not spend quite so much on these movies. Ok, I actually fine that impressive as it officially doesn't open until the 21st, so anything last weekend would have been in limited theaters. I know cause I plan to see it tuesday and I checked and none of our local theaters had it till today (thursday the 20th) as a preview showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, slikmar said: Ok, I actually fine that impressive as it officially doesn't open until the 21st, so anything last weekend would have been in limited theaters. I know cause I plan to see it tuesday and I checked and none of our local theaters had it till today (thursday the 20th) as a preview showing. Maybe they've tied the release to Flashpoint to gain extra revenue (time)streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 Black Adam has opened in limited theaters around the world already (Australia for example). Sometimes they do that, especially with movies that star people who are more popular outside the US (like The Rock). I plan on seeing it tomorrow, reviews so far are mixed but somewhat positive, and as someone noted above, I don't think reviewers quite got what the movie was supposed to be or walked in expecting something else. Honestly, my admiration or trust of movie reviewers has really gone downhill precipitously in the last, oh, 5 years or so. Cratered, even. slikmar and Pattern Ghost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Black Adam has opened in limited theaters around the world already (Australia for example). Sometimes they do that, especially with movies that star people who are more popular outside the US (like The Rock). I plan on seeing it tomorrow, reviews so far are mixed but somewhat positive, and as someone noted above, I don't think reviewers quite got what the movie was supposed to be or walked in expecting something else. Honestly, my admiration or trust of movie reviewers has really gone downhill precipitously in the last, oh, 5 years or so. Cratered, even. From what I can find, they're projecting $50-60 million in US/Canada box office for the first weekend (downgraded from a previous projection of $65-70 million after the reviews hit), and a total worldwide take around $135 million. Most worldwide markets had their premiere Wednesday, and there's a reference to an October 3 "Black Carpet" event in Mexico City, and a London showing last Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 The critics complaining about Johnson are going beyond the movie in isolation. Plus: perhaps it's true to the source...but that may also say more about the source, and in particular, translation into a different medium. Pretty sure it was Spider Robinson, in one of the Callahan books, that said something like "we often consider the intelligence of a speaker based on the degree they agree with us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted October 20, 2022 Report Share Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, unclevlad said: The critics complaining about Johnson are going beyond the movie in isolation. Plus: perhaps it's true to the source...but that may also say more about the source, and in particular, translation into a different medium. Pretty sure it was Spider Robinson, in one of the Callahan books, that said something like "we often consider the intelligence of a speaker based on the degree they agree with us." A quick sampling of the entries for Rotten Tomatoes shows that even for the positive reviews, the ratings weren't all that strong. The common thread through almost all of them is that the movie lacks a compelling storyline in between the exploding bits. That said, this review quote made me want to see the movie: Quote However, it's the wonderful dynamic of the hugely charismatic Brosnan and Hodge as Doctor Fate and Hawkman which proves the real heart of the film, consistently stealing scenes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 21, 2022 Report Share Posted October 21, 2022 Marvel really got DC back with Dr Strange. DC slipped Aquaman into the movies stealing pretty much all of Namor's schtick and background despite coming out years after Namor. Dr Fate came out decades before Dr Strange but now viewers might get the sense that he's the derivative movie character. So having someone do well with him and make him interesting is a good move by DC, particularly after the disappointing Dr Strange 2: where he's the sidekick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted October 21, 2022 Report Share Posted October 21, 2022 On 9/20/2022 at 5:29 PM, Lord Liaden said: the in-your-face feminism of Batwoman, Can you cite examples? Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted October 21, 2022 Report Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said: where he's the sidekick The sidekick to whom? The girl was basically the McGuffin, and Wanda was the villain, so who's left? I remain annoyed at Wong being Sorcerer Supreme, though. Don't know what the logic behind that change was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 21, 2022 Report Share Posted October 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 21, 2022 Report Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said: The sidekick to whom? The girl was basically the McGuffin, and Wanda was the villain, so who's left? I remain annoyed at Wong being Sorcerer Supreme, though. Don't know what the logic behind that change was. The explanation Strange himself gave in Spider-Man: No Way Home, was that he was "blipped" for five years, so Wong moved ahead of him in the SS queue. It is rather annoying, though, since Strange is clearly Wong's superior in sorcery, and in adaptability and improvisation. OTOH it would be fair to say that Wong is more mature and wiser, which probably counts for a lot for the Sorcerer Supreme. But in his last two films Strange has learned some important life lessons, and perhaps that will pave the way for him assuming the mantle. I can see why the loss of the Eye of Agamotto was of such concern to the Ancient One. If Steven still had the Time Stone he'd have been far more of a match for the Scarlet Witch. I think the writers of Multiverse of Madness missed a bet by not capturing that freaky Darkhold-generated third eye within Strange's amulet. That's its trick from the comics, after all. I wouldn't call Dr. Strange a sidekick in MoM, but he definitely isn't the lead character in his own movie. While he does experience some character growth, mostly he just reacts to the changing circumstances. It's Wanda who really drives the plot, who has the grandest character arc. IMO this is her movie, the way Infinity War is Thanos's movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted October 21, 2022 Report Share Posted October 21, 2022 But Wong has been sneaking the Abomination out of jail to play in super powered MMA fights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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