Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker

[zslane]

Fans desperate for something to restore their faith in the franchise are wetting themselves over The Mandalorian and the space MacGuffin known as Baby Yoga. But that's not enough to make me a fan again. And I'm still not going to subscribe to Disney+ until there are at least three MCU tv shows to watch on it.

[Ternaugh]

There's a middle view, where it's okay to watch stuff you like, and ignore the rest. We do it all the time for old Star Trek series, and it's okay to do it for Star Wars as well.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

And I'm still not going to subscribe to Disney+ until there are at least three MCU tv shows to watch on it.

 

I'll just treat them like HBO and such. 

Every once in a while they will have a single program worth watching and I can do that when they hit DVD/Blu-ray. 

I never had a compelling need to be first in line for a show or movie so I can wait. 

And I seriously doubt the mouse will pass up sales.

[Bazza]

Pretty much come to the conclusion the new Disney films are a deconstructionist anti-mythology of Star Wars. 

 

The prequels, as terrible as they are as art & movies, at least preserve the mythological essence & character of Star Wars. 

[pinecone]

On 4/13/2019 at 11:21 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

One would think that in the thousands of years of Jedi history at least one person would have come up with this idea before.  And found that emotions are uncontrollable and lead to bad places if they generate power, no matter how positive you try to make them.

That said I'm sure that's where they're going: hope and joy-joy feelings will save us all!

I believe that the "lore" contains that there were Kindness Sith who were super healers. Naturaly the Jedi exterminated them along with all the other heretics....

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

Every once in a while they will have a single program worth watching and I can do that when they hit DVD/Blu-ray. 

I never had a compelling need to be first in line for a show or movie so I can wait. 

And I seriously doubt the mouse will pass up sales.

 

 

Disney has demonstrated very abundantly that they are willing to simply not allow access to their content unless they control it.  Most of their catalog was only available at special showings or rarely if ever on TV.  They wouldn't even release a lot of it on DVD or Video tape in the past.  I predict they will make sure there's only one way to see their stuff, and that's streaming on their service.

Because if someone buys a DVD or downloads the video for their own server... they only pay for it once.  If they have to pay to see it on the streaming service, that's money every month.  And the mouse wants that cabbage.

[Guest Usagi]

I absolutely hated The Force Awakens.  Thought it was total, unmitigated garbage.  It was just A New Hope again, but this time with characters that make no sense, a villain that makes no sense, etc.  The story was terrible, the characters were stupid, just an awful waste of time.  I hoped that maybe with The Last Jedi we'd get a good story.  Maybe downplay Finn's origins, give Rery Sue an actual personality of some sort, maybe allow her to fail at something and (gasp!) need someone else's help.  Nope.  Instead we got a film so bad it managed to make me reconsider my feelings about the Prequels.  Jupiter Ascending was less stupid than this movie. 

 

I have absolutely no faith in The Last Skywalker.  I don't think Star Wars can be saved at this point, and Abrams is not the guy to do it.  Absolutely everything about this film looks like garbage.  The big scene in the trailer, where Rey faces off against a TIE Fighter, is the dumbest shit I have ever seen.  "Hey, I have a ship that flies and guns that can shoot targets miles away from me, I know what I'll do -- I'll ram her!"  What contrived nonsense.  It's just going to be a stupid, terrible mess of a movie.  Even that title is just dumb.

[Hermit]

I keep wondering when and if we're going to see someone try to pull an Orville on Star Wars.. That is, Orville is nOT star trek, but it's so close fans recognize a homage (Some would say a rip off) and some embraced it as carrying the spirit of it.

 

If someone makes Star Wars 'inspired' stuff that's close enough to be kissing cousin but just far enough away not to get sued, I have to wonder how many old Star Wars fans would jump on that band wagon?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Whoever it was that said Disney bought two product lines super popular with boys to compensate for most of their existing catalog being popular with girls was, I think, perceptive and correct.  But then because they only have a hammer, they are proceeding to treat Marvel and Star Wars like nails: they only know one way to produce anything.

[zslane]

3 hours ago, Usagi said:

Abrams is not the guy to do it.

 

He seems to agree with you, seeing as he turned down taking over the entire franchise some years ago, leaving Kathleen Kennedy entirely to her own devices. Instead he took a $500M production deal with WB to take over the DCEU. If there was ever any doubt that WB/DC was intent on ruining their cinematic properties once and for all, there certainly isn't anymore.

 

However, there is still hope for Star Wars. Kennedy will vacate her position at the end of her current contract (2021), possibly slightly sooner, and hand over the reins to Jon Favreau, who will undoubtedly make Dave Filoni his right-hand guy. Given the creative landscape in Hollywood right now, I honestly believe this is the best we could have hoped for.

[Spence]

20 minutes ago, zslane said:

Given the creative landscape in Hollywood right now, I honestly believe this is the best we could have hoped for.

 

There is a creative landscape in Hollywood???

[pinecone]

1 hour ago, Spence said:

 

There is a creative landscape in Hollywood???

The Sahara is a landscape....

[Bazza]

Article about zslane’s post

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2019/11/the-mandalorian-showrunner-jon-favreau-could-reportedly-take-a-star-wars-leadership-role/

 

The best we can hope for is someone one who has an knowledge & understanding of mythology being involved. Hollywood gave us George Lucas—which in hindsight seems like an abnormality, as Lucas took his cues from Joseph Campbell—and I can’t think of anyone currently in Hollywood who has a grounding/understanding of mythological storytelling, apart from Kevin Feige (and maybe not even Feige).  

[Guest Usagi]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

Instead he took a $500M production deal with WB to take over the DCEU. If there was ever any doubt that WB/DC was intent on ruining their cinematic properties once and for all, there certainly isn't anymore.

🤣 As a diehard Marvel True Believer who feels duty bound to wish the worst for DC, this is great news.

 

1 hour ago, zslane said:

However, there is still hope for Star Wars. Kennedy will vacate her position at the end of her current contract (2021), possibly slightly sooner, and hand over the reins to Jon Favreau, who will undoubtedly make Dave Filoni his right-hand guy. Given the creative landscape in Hollywood right now, I honestly believe this is the best we could have hoped for.

It's easy to bag on Kennedy, and she did screw the pooch hiring Abrams and then Johnson, but Rogue One and Solo were both really fun.  But yeah, Favreau seems like a good choice.

[Bazza]

4 minutes ago, Usagi said:

🤣 As a diehard Marvel True Believer who feels duty bound to wish the worst for DC, this is great news.

 

It's easy to bag on Kennedy, and she did screw the pooch hiring Abrams and then Johnson, but Rogue One and Solo were both really fun.  But yeah, Favreau seems like a good choice.

 

1. Agree with you likewise as a Marvel True Believer. 

 

2. Agree with Rogue One. Less so with Solo. 

[Scott Ruggels]

Giving it a pass.

[Bazza]

29 minutes ago, Bazza said:

Article about zslane’s post

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2019/11/the-mandalorian-showrunner-jon-favreau-could-reportedly-take-a-star-wars-leadership-role/

 

The best we can hope for is someone one who has an knowledge & understanding of mythology being involved. Hollywood gave us George Lucas—which in hindsight seems like an abnormality, as Lucas took his cues from Joseph Campbell—and I can’t think of anyone currently in Hollywood who has a grounding/understanding of mythological storytelling, apart from Kevin Feige (and maybe not even Feige).  

 

Addendum: Christopher Vogler & Dan Harmon would be my new hope for Star Wars. 

[Guest Usagi]

3 minutes ago, Bazza said:

2. Agree with Rogue One. Less so with Solo. 

I actually really enjoyed Solo.  Some of it a was a bit dumb, and it suffered from a bad case of prequelitis (symptoms include answering questions no one asked) but there were far more great moments than bad, and overall it was a very solid space opera adventure about a swashbuckling space rogue, and really I don't know what else you can expect from a story about Han Solo.  I loved the supporting characters, especially L3-37, Becker and Dryden Vos.  It was just a solid space heist movie.  

 

It probably helps that the bit about how Solo got his name really made me laugh.  Everyone talks about Han Solo likes he's this incredibly sauve, cool badass -- but the movies never actually depict him that way.  He's really kind of an idiot who mostly gets by on dumb luck.  You know that "mistake" where Han says he made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs in A New Hope? There are a bunch of theories that try to explain that away, my favorite is the "Han is an idiot and just talking out of his ass."  Look at the look Ben Kenobi gives him when he says that.  That is a look that says "Aw jeez, what an asshole."  That's how I see Han Solo, as a blowhard.  A charming blowhard, but a blowhard.  And so, I find it very amusing that Han Solo got his cool as heck space rogue name as the result of a bored clerk making a truly terrible dad joke.

[zslane]

On 11/23/2019 at 12:23 PM, Usagi said:

Rogue One and Solo were both really fun.

 

Unfortunately, Solo flopped at the box office and only further divided the fanbase, putting the penultimate nail in Kennedy's coffin as far as Disney is concerned. The Rise of Skywalker will determine if she leaves her stewardship slightly redeemed or in complete disgrace. In either case, Disney is very much looking forward to a fresh start with the franchise, one which they undoubtedly feel has begun with The Mandalorian.

[Guest Usagi]

3 hours ago, zslane said:

Unfortunately, Solo flopped at the box office

Which really shouldn't be blamed on Solo.  Solo flopped because of The Last Jedi.  In this modern movie market of constant hype, shorter theater runs, and prepurchased tickets,  a film's ticket sales are almost meaningless.  The Last Skywalker is already #2 in presales, with over 250 million in tickets already sold.  It bumped Last Jedi from #3 to #4.  Solo got destroyed at the box office because the entire build up to its release was in the shadow of The Last Jedi.  I mean it came out less than 5 months after Last Jedi left theaters -- Last Jedi was coming to Netflix about the same time Solo was hitting theaters.  People punished Solo for The Last Jedi.

[pinecone]

20 hours ago, Usagi said:

I actually really enjoyed Solo.  Some of it a was a bit dumb, and it suffered from a bad case of prequelitis (symptoms include answering questions no one asked) but there were far more great moments than bad, and overall it was a very solid space opera adventure about a swashbuckling space rogue, and really I don't know what else you can expect from a story about Han Solo.  I loved the supporting characters, especially L3-37, Becker and Dryden Vos.  It was just a solid space heist movie.  

 

It probably helps that the bit about how Solo got his name really made me laugh.  Everyone talks about Han Solo likes he's this incredibly sauve, cool badass -- but the movies never actually depict him that way.  He's really kind of an idiot who mostly gets by on dumb luck.  You know that "mistake" where Han says he made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs in A New Hope? There are a bunch of theories that try to explain that away, my favorite is the "Han is an idiot and just talking out of his ass."  Look at the look Ben Kenobi gives him when he says that.  That is a look that says "Aw jeez, what an asshole."  That's how I see Han Solo, as a blowhard.  A charming blowhard, but a blowhard.  And so, I find it very amusing that Han Solo got his cool as heck space rogue name as the result of a bored clerk making a truly terrible dad joke.

I always felt a slight bit of Baron Munchhausen was present in Hans...fast talking rogue, has a bunch of amazing buddies, engage in unbelievable adventures....

[zslane]

14 hours ago, Usagi said:

In this modern movie market of constant hype, shorter theater runs, and prepurchased tickets,  a film's ticket sales are almost meaningless. 

 

Try convincing Hollywood of this. They still believe that opening weekend box office figures tell them everything they need to know about a movie's success. It is the crystal ball through which all financing and production decisions are made for future films in a franchise.

 

At the end of the day, Solo was greenlit, written, cast, produced, marketed, and released during Kennedy's tenure. Most of the process fell under her guiding hand, and the results were abysmal. And it came at a time when the fanbase was already bitterly divided over the direction the franchise had been going under Kennedy's watch. At least the other recent Star Wars movies that sucked hit the billion dollar club, allowing Kennedy to claim victory in the one area Disney really cares about most. Unfortunately, the bad taste that these recent movies have left in the mouths of fans has been having spillover into other areas of Disney's empire. For instance, Catherine Powell left her 15-year post as head of theme parks due to lackluster attendance at Galaxy's Edge.

 

It's simply not enough for a handful of fans to sorta, kinda, mostly like movies such as Solo. The franchise is in a downward spiral and Disney finally realizes that they have to take decisive measures to prevent it from becoming a death spiral.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well and Disney's proclivity for buying out entire theater's worth of tickets to boost sales numbers doesn't help any either

[zslane]

14 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Disney's proclivity for buying out entire theater's worth of tickets to boost sales numbers doesn't help any either

 

I'm afraid I don't know what this refers to.

[wcw43921]

  

On 11/23/2019 at 10:48 AM, Hermit said:

I keep wondering when and if we're going to see someone try to pull an Orville on Star Wars.. That is, Orville is nOT star trek, but it's so close fans recognize a homage (Some would say a rip off) and some embraced it as carrying the spirit of it.

 

If someone makes Star Wars 'inspired' stuff that's close enough to be kissing cousin but just far enough away not to get sued, I have to wonder how many old Star Wars fans would jump on that band wagon?

 

There have been Star Wars "emulators" in the past, with varying degrees of success and affection.  These are the ones that come to my mind--

 

BattleStar Galactica (1978)

Message From Space

Battle Beyond The Stars

Starcrash

Spaceballs

 

Mobile Suit Gundam may count as well--giant robot fighting machines may not be a thing in Star Wars, but the Gundams do carry lightsabers (referred to as "heat sabers" or "beam sabers") and I do remember the series being called "the Japanese Star Wars" at one point.  But while it's quite popular with Japanese audiences, its popularity worldwide is nowhere near that of Star Wars.

 

The others I've mentioned have sort of "cult" followings, for lack of a better word.  While they all had some good qualities to them, none of them really had the impact that Star Wars did, and I think a main reason for that is none of them had the onscreen chemistry between their actors that existed between Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher--the original Untouchable Trio.  The other movies I've mentioned, while they have some decent actors, don't really rise to that measure of chemistry, which is just as important, if not more, as plot, set and costume design, special effects or any other component of moviemaking.  Firefly is the only science fiction production that even comes close.

 

I wouldn't mind remakes of Message From Space, Battle Beyond The Stars, and Starcrash.  I always like the look of the Gavannas, and the spaceship designs--although in Battle Beyond The Stars I would not have a spaceship with boobs.  I would, however, like very much to see a Starcrash remake with Catherine Zeta-Jones in the role of Stella Star--and Angela White in the XXX parody of the same.

 

And once again, I may have said too much.