csyphrett Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 10 hours ago, massey said: Since he showed up in the same timeline he left (or at least a version of Cap showed up in the timeline that a version of Cap left), I think we've got to accept the possibility that he was always there. In 2012, when one Cap is fighting an earlier version of Cap over Loki's scepter, somewhere there's a third version of Cap (much much older) who is holding Peggy's hand while she's in the hospital. When freshly thawed out Cap finds out that Peggy (not Sue) got married, he doesn't know that she's married to his future time traveling self. No. He still had his time travel device to return to the main timeline. The original husband in the original timeline was one of the agents from the television show and he was dead by the time Cap was thawed out. Cap replaces all the stones and Thor's hammer, then creates a timeline where he married Peggy instead of the original guy who she hadn't met yet. After her death, the snap, and the original time heist, and the death of the 2014 Thanos, he returns to the main branch to give Sam his shield. That's what we know. What we don't know is what did he do when he was Peggy's husband, and if he smoothed things out for that timeline to make things better. Did the Avengers start in the 50's? Did he destroy Arnim Zola's computer replacement? Did he nip the Hydra Infiltration in the bud? Did he recruit Hank Pym for Shield, and prevent Janet from being trapped in the quantum realm? Is Hope and Scott leading a third/fourth/fifth gen Avengers team with Cassie trying to get on the next generation? Does Cassie call Rocket Uncle Raccoon? CES drunkonduty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 If he had particles left he would've returned through the device after 5 seconds. He is waiting on the bench because he has lived some portion of his life in this timeline. massey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 The whole thing is a nice gesture to the character, but is problematic, canon wise. It would be easier to accept if Steve-as-old-man had background cameos in some of the time travel scenes. And it seems out of character for Steve too. What if a big huge event happens right at Tony's memorial service? Cap doesn't seem to person to "give up" and retire. He seems to be always focused on the next mission. zslane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Starlord said: If he had particles left he would've returned through the device after 5 seconds. He is waiting on the bench because he has lived some portion of his life in this timeline. Yeah, there's a bit of a plot hole with regards to needing to pop out of the device, but the Russos did state that he lived a life with Peggy in an alternate timeline. I guess we could assume that he popped out of the time machine covertly at some point during the movie, and it wasn't shown on screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Bazza said: And it seems out of character for Steve too. Agree. OTOH, the actor wanted out, so this was an out that gave Cap a happy ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Not sure if I have mentioned it but I really hate time travel stories, I also hate heavy continuity. Is it any wonder that while End Game entertained me, it did not hit my buttons as a great movie - so many issues with time travel and continuity and how they interact... 🙂 zslane and Netzilla 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said: Agree. OTOH, the actor wanted out, so this was an out that gave Cap a happy ending. I recall Evans saying that he would continue to play Rogers as long as Marvel wanted him to. But between Endgame and Civil War, Rogers is a liar. Going his whole life between the war and Tony's funeral never seeing a situation where he could step in and make a difference? Steve Rogers: If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it. Sometimes I wish I could. Tony Stark: No, you don't. Steve Rogers: No, I don't. mattingly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Apparently one of the names shown on the memorial stones in San Francisco is "Stanley Lieber". Nice touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 👍 So Thanos took him. Does this mean Hulk returned him when Banner snapped back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Greywind said: I recall Evans saying that he would continue to play Rogers as long as Marvel wanted him to. From this article: Quote Chris Evans has “emotionally moved on” from his role as Captain America and is not expected to return to the Marvel Cinematic Universe according to Anthony and Joe Russo, the directors of Avengers: Endgame. Note, this is the Russos' claim. It could be this is more on Marvel's side than Evans'. 2 hours ago, Greywind said: Going his whole life between the war and Tony's funeral never seeing a situation where he could step in and make a difference? The Russo brothers have stated that he lived in a branched timeline. We don't really know what he was doing all that time. Maybe he fixed up an alternate timeline and prevented a bunch of things he had foreknowledge of. We don't know what he was up to. On the other hand, there's this: 🤷♂️ ETA: There's no need to watch that whole video, just the part up to quoting the writers vs directors on time travel. The discussion is a waste of time. These three didn't really pay attention to details in the movie and/or have poor recollections of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Bazza said: 👍 So Thanos took him. Does this mean Hulk returned him when Banner snapped back? If only.... 😢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Self-confessed 'stupid' Marvel fan Serena Williams told Benedict Cumberbatch that he's 'ruining her life' https://apple.news/AJLbBoWghR3agq7NmdxqyRw Pariah and pinecone 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 20 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: He interfered with the timeline by not being frozen. Why would he give up being Cap? Gee, what would have more impact on the timeline, some guy marrying Peggy Carter or Captain America running around? He would give up being Cap to avoid altering the timeline and risking serious negative repercussions. Why did he not let Tony return the gem from the 1970s, and immediately snap back to rescue Bucky in WW II, then nip the Hydra infiltration in the bud and then return to the present, 2 seconds after Tony, to fight Thanos? 5 hours ago, Bazza said: The whole thing is a nice gesture to the character, but is problematic, canon wise. It would be easier to accept if Steve-as-old-man had background cameos in some of the time travel scenes. And it seems out of character for Steve too. What if a big huge event happens right at Tony's memorial service? Cap doesn't seem to person to "give up" and retire. He seems to be always focused on the next mission. For us, "always" is "during World War II" and "after awakening 70 years in the future". It does not include any growth in a five year period with no "next mission" either. 5 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said: Yeah, there's a bit of a plot hole with regards to needing to pop out of the device, but the Russos did state that he lived a life with Peggy in an alternate timeline. I guess we could assume that he popped out of the time machine covertly at some point during the movie, and it wasn't shown on screen. The Russos also said "hey, we are not in charge any more so whatever the next editor/screenwriter/director decides is the real answer". Kind of like the comics, where Bucky was definitely, for sure, 100% dead...until he wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Bazza said: And it seems out of character for Steve too. What if a big huge event happens right at Tony's memorial service? Cap doesn't seem to person to "give up" and retire. He seems to be always focused on the next mission. If they really need him, they can always run him through the time machine the same way they did Ant Man. Remember Baby Ant Man and Old Man Ant Man? Need a younger Cap? Run time through him backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Bazza said: And it seems out of character for Steve too. What if a big huge event happens right at Tony's memorial service? Actually, believing that the world would come to an end and no one else could deal with a crisis if he were gone seems really out of character for the humility of Steve Rogers. How many times has he said "If I fall, others will take up the torch - you will never extinguish the spark of freedom!"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 6 hours ago, Bazza said: The whole thing is a nice gesture to the character, but is problematic, canon wise. It would be easier to accept if Steve-as-old-man had background cameos in some of the time travel scenes. And it seems out of character for Steve too. What if a big huge event happens right at Tony's memorial service? Cap doesn't seem to person to "give up" and retire. He seems to be always focused on the next mission. Maybe he replaced Stan Lee in all his cameos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Quote But between Endgame and Civil War, Rogers is a liar. Going his whole life between the war and Tony's funeral never seeing a situation where he could step in and make a difference? Yeah the way they handled it made him look pretty selfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 On 5/9/2019 at 12:05 AM, Christopher R Taylor said: Wore glasses though, for... reasons Perhaps being incredibly strong and tough doesn't necessarily correct a visual deficit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Astigmatism is resistant to many things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 8 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said: The Russos also said "hey, we are not in charge any more so whatever the next editor/screenwriter/director decides is the real answer". Kind of like the comics, where Bucky was definitely, for sure, 100% dead...until he wasn't. Pretty much. Just have to decide if we're talking about what is or what will be. I think the next batch of creators will largely ignore the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Kinda like how Elizabeth Olsen ignored the issue of her character's accent... Pattern Ghost, massey and Christopher R Taylor 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 Well the Russos ignored Odin in Thor 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted May 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 As it turns out Thanos's mad plan to kill off 50% of life is within Silver Surfer Vol 3 #35 written by Jim Starlin, and pencilled by Ron Lim. It is the beginnings of his Infinity Quest. What is missing from the film is that his motivation to do so is in Mistress Death's name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 He was a big fan of Hela's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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