[Police brutality] American injustice, yet again.

[BNakagawa]

decades ago, police went to court to fight for and win the legal right to discriminate against high IQ applicants.

[Pariah]

4 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

I'm posting this because I'm not sure anyone can spin this more than the basic facts and video show, regardless of source

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/05/buffalo-officers-suspended-shoving-man/

 

Follow-up from the police union after the suspensions:

 

“Fifty-seven [officers] resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” union president John Evans told NBC affiliate WGRZ.

 

Buffalo police officers resign from unit in protest of suspended colleagues who shoved man, 75, to ground

[unclevlad]

The Floyd incident has done something amazing to me...

 

I've done a ton of shopping online for a long time now, and in many places.  So I get LOTS of promotional/announcement emails from those merchants.  In the last...7 to 10 days or so...I've seen more "we stand against racism/violence" messages *from companies* than I can ever recall.  High end coffee.  Outdoor gear.  Silk-screen apparel, mugs, etc.  2 from watch and strap blogs/vendors...one of which is in Australia!  A crafters' storefront.  I don't remember them all, but it's been a BUNCH.  MANY of these, AFAIR, have not made such statements in the past;  they just don't get political.  But here they are.

 

As for the Buffalo cops that resigned...

 

There was an article in, I'm pretty sure the NYT this morning about police departments that'd done a much better job in changing the statistics:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/briefing/george-floyd-buffalo-coronavirus-your-friday-briefing.html

 

It's paywalled, so the high points...some of the things that've worked

--de-escalation training

--tougher measures to pull violent cops off the streets 

--sometimes, increasing the numbers...tired and stressed people make bad decisions

 

So m cynical side says, how many  of the cops that resigned are disgusted by the lack of support to their fellow officers...misplaced as that might be...and how many are doing it before they get nailed for doing the same thing?

 

If the cops in that video were following procedure, then senior members of the department responsible for the training curriculum NEED to be fired.  That CANNOT have been correct implementation, IMO.

[Ragitsu]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

"who were simply executing orders"

 

[csyphrett]

2 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

Follow-up from the police union after the suspensions:

 

“Fifty-seven [officers] resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” union president John Evans told NBC affiliate WGRZ.

 

Buffalo police officers resign from unit in protest of suspended colleagues who shoved man, 75, to ground

They didn't quit the job. They just quit their specialty. Essentially they went from beating up old people under special circumstances to beating up old people while on patrol. Again I would rather they just quit period, or do what the British used to do and take a pistol with one bullet and a shot of bourbon to an empty office somewhere. These are adults. If they can't see what they are doing is wrong, then they don't need to be police.

CES   

[TrickstaPriest]

Essentially, from what I've heard, is they were threatened with not having their legal expenses covered for incidents involving their duties.  If so, I could certainly understand leaving the unit (I would).  But I don't have any solid information on that - much less why one of them chose to partake that particular video taped action to begin with.

[pinecone]

5 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

Follow-up from the police union after the suspensions:

 

“Fifty-seven [officers] resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” union president John Evans told NBC affiliate WGRZ.

 

Buffalo police officers resign from unit in protest of suspended colleagues who shoved man, 75, to ground

And I say, "Good riddance"

[Pattern Ghost]

15 hours ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

So destroying the supplies of water is not exactly a great marker to me, even if they (the police) feel it's essential. 

 

I think I may have been unclear in my post: I was only commenting on the efficacy of water bottles as weapons, not on the actions of the police, which I found wholly unjustified.

[TrickstaPriest]

1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said:

I think I may have been unclear in my post: I was only commenting on the efficacy of water bottles as weapons, not on the actions of the police, which I found wholly unjustified.

 

Ah, but it's okay.  I wasn't trying to rag on you or anything - I just am saying that I'm firm in the belief that we've gotten -very good- at busting up protests.  My complaint is that we are so good at it, it's impossible to protest anymore.  I also wanted to float the thought that, by cutting off water supply, you are exercising a soft force to cut the protest faster. 

 

Using soft forces isn't wrong... but my concern is that we are so good at breaking/slandering/fostering violence in protests, that it's impossible to tell how much of this is being created intentionally, and how much is just bad decisions by everyone involved.

 

I was hearing something (I literally can't seem to find the video) that this comes with our association with the IDF and Saudia Arabia enforcement - we send people to train them in experimental suppression tactics, they apply them in those countries and see how they work, and then we bring the personnel we sent to train them back to train our own police.  The reason I mention this is it might explain why some people feel these tactics are so brutal - they never originated in a relatively peaceful country.

[Ragitsu]

We love when other people rally against their oppressive governments. It's a spectator sport, y'know?

[ScottishFox]

43 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

We love when other people rally against their oppressive governments. It's a spectator sport, y'know?

 

I'm sure there are several countries enjoying watching the USA going through its own protests / riots.

 

The relationship between the government and the governed isn't always good.

[Ragitsu]

On 6/4/2020 at 11:53 AM, Cancer said:

I must admit: I feel some relief that our late board member Lapsedgamer did not live to see this episode in our history.

 

He was from Seattle, correct?

[Lord Liaden]

15 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

 

I'm sure there are several countries enjoying watching the USA going through its own protests / riots.

 

The relationship between the government and the governed isn't always good.

 

For some countries where the dominant society already hated the USA that sentiment may be common. But for most of us this is very painful to watch. Despite its many flaws (which we love complaining about), for much of the world America has always been seen as one of the good guys. The ideals on which it was founded have greatly contributed to the foundations of democracy globally. Compared to most of the empires throughout history, the United States has been sparing in imposing its great power on other nations. We genuinely looked to America as a positive force, who when the chips are down would act to protect the free world.

 

What's happening there now is deeply saddening, and not a little frightening.

[csyphrett]

34 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

 

He was from Seattle, correct?

I believe so.

CES

[TrickstaPriest]

53 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

The relationship between the government and the governed isn't always good.

 

Pretty much why I'm concerned about the tactics at play all around...

[Cygnia]

Northern Alberta chief accuses RCMP of assault

[Lord Liaden]

The high profile that white-on-black injustice and violence has in the United States, white-on-red injustice and violence has here in Canada. There are large regions of my country, mostly north of the big cities, where First Nations people (as we call them today) are the majority. They're very active in trying to secure their rights, and some have gained substantial control over their traditional lands. But that's meant that a lot of what's gone on under the radar of most white Canadians for a long time, has increasingly come to light.

[Cygnia]

A Cop Was Filmed Telling Armed White Men To Avoid Arrest "So We Don't Look Like We're Playing Favorites"

[Cancer]

20 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

He was from Seattle, correct?

 

19 hours ago, csyphrett said:

I believe so.

CES

 

I remember reading his newspaper obit, and yes, he was Seattle PD, though I think his residence was in Federal Way.

[csyphrett]

This is sort of an aside, but I remember getting tired of reading harry bosch because in every book at least one of the other cops was the villain, or had done something wrong. Now I am thinking Connelly was underselling how bad the LAPD actually is.

CES 

[Cancer]

My guess is that the police training programs are a real festering mess that need cleaning out.  When misbehavior is so pervasive, it's a culture and training issue, and that suggests that it's more than just the police forces themselves; it's an entire set of psychopathology that is drilled into the people who go in by senior people who are the ultimate source of the psychopathology. 

[Cygnia]

From Snopes

 

Did Officers Shoot at a Car After Being Told a Pregnant Woman Was Inside?

Quote

True

 

[TrickstaPriest]

1 hour ago, Cancer said:

My guess is that the police training programs are a real festering mess that need cleaning out.  When misbehavior is so pervasive, it's a culture and training issue, and that suggests that it's more than just the police forces themselves; it's an entire set of psychopathology that is drilled into the people who go in by senior people who are the ultimate source of the psychopathology. 

 

I was wondering earlier - I heard that we import training from Saudi Arabia and the IDF (Israeli Defense Force).  We send people over there to train them in our tactics, revise and elaborate the tactics there, and then bring them home and train the police in them.

 

I don't have any information on that right now, and I'm drowning in classwork so... some time when I have time again... in a year or two.

[Cygnia]

What Is Kettling?

Quote

On Tuesday evening, as a large group of peaceful protesters marched over the Manhattan Bridge, members of the New York Police Department parked on opposite ends of the span, trapping 5,000 people over the water for nearly an hour. The night before, in Dallas, police officers corralled protesters on the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge before arresting 674 of them (they were released later that night, with ‘at-large charges’ for ‘blocking traffic’). That same night in Washington, D.C., police officers drove protesters into a crowded intersection of Swann and 15th NW with teargas. All over the country this week, police officers have surrounded protesters—and then refused to let them leave.

This tactic is called kettling, a word you might have seen popping up in social media posts from and about the protests. The term evokes a boiling tea kettle, but it actually comes from a German military term referring to an army that’s completely surrounded by a much larger force. “Kettling is a law enforcement tactic specifically applied when the police have chosen to criminalize existence in public spaces,” says Blake Strode, Executive Director of ArchCity Defenders, a legal advocacy group that has handled kettling cases in St. Louis. “So separate and apart from who is caught in them and how people are impacted, which is all true and well-stated, it is also fundamentally about police dictating whom is allowed to be where and when.”

 

[Ragitsu]

1 hour ago, Cancer said:

My guess is that the police training programs are a real festering mess that need cleaning out.  When misbehavior is so pervasive, it's a culture and training issue, and that suggests that it's more than just the police forces themselves; it's an entire set of psychopathology that is drilled into the people who go in by senior people who are the ultimate source of the psychopathology. 

 

We often hear how cops (the bad ones and the so-called "good" ones that cover their asses) behave like gang members, but it would be interesting to see psychologists/psychiatrists experienced with both "traditional" gangbangers and police officers comment on how much actual behavioral overlap there is between the two groups.