[Police brutality] American injustice, yet again.

[Starlord]

1 hour ago, pinecone said:

Sorry to interupt, but you just said he turned towards them, why was he shot in the Back? That does not make sense.

 

He half-turned while running, shot the taser, turned to full run and then gets hit.

[ScottishFox]

5 hours ago, pinecone said:

Sorry to interupt, but you just said he turned towards them, why was he shot in the Back? That does not make sense.

 

If you watch the best video for this (I think the one from the now cinders Wendy's building) as he's running away he turns his upper body back and clearly aims the taser at the police as he's running away.

 

So, without a picture, his legs are moving away; his upper body is turned almost sideways and his taser-hand has reached back to aim the weapon directly at the police officer(s) chasing him.

 

Ok, after some digging I found a picture.  This is the instant immediately before Rayshard Brooks gets shot.  It's actually reasonably hard to find even though I've seen the video a couple of times.

 

 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

This is actually common. The person turns to fire while running away, then the shooter starts to take the shot, and by the time the shot is away, the back is turned again. And it's not easy to hit the brakes once you commit to the action.

 

EDIT: Here's an article by an attorney that has a good explanation of the reaction gap. Scroll down to "Seemingly Excessive Force — the Reaction Gap" and "Wounds in the Back."

 

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/defending-the-self-defense-case-pt-2/

[Lord Liaden]

I appreciate that having been brought up. I myself have never thought of how that understandable instinct could lead to misinterpretation of bullet wound location, so thanks.

 

But in this particular case, the other evidence clearly illustrates that the suspect was running away when shot.

[Old Man]

He was also only armed with a taser. Perhaps tasers become WMDs in the hands of civilians?

[Matt the Bruins]

"If I'd been standing in a puddle of my own urine from fear for my life, that taser could have electrocuted me! I had no choice but to defend my life with lethal force!"

[Pattern Ghost]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

But in this particular case, the other evidence clearly illustrates that the suspect was running away when shot.

 

For sure. This case didn't really require any shooting IMO. At the point he discharged the Taser, they could have just let him run off, then picked him up- later. And, they could have simply put the guy in a cab or had a friend come pick him up so he wouldn't be driving, instead of trying to cuff him, which process they fumbled. I saw the video of them talking to him, then trying to start cuffing him. They go from a cordial conversation to "You're too drunk to drive," to each just walking up and grabbing a wrist without giving him any verbal commands.

[megaplayboy]

3 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

For sure. This case didn't really require any shooting IMO. At the point he discharged the Taser, they could have just let him run off, then picked him up- later. And, they could have simply put the guy in a cab or had a friend come pick him up so he wouldn't be driving, instead of trying to cuff him, which process they fumbled. I saw the video of them talking to him, then trying to start cuffing him. They go from a cordial conversation to "You're too drunk to drive," to each just walking up and grabbing a wrist without giving him any verbal commands.

They could have just taken his keys and let him walk to his sister's home.  No custodial arrest necessary.  

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, megaplayboy said:

They could have just taken his keys and let him walk to his sister's home.  No custodial arrest necessary.  

 

Yeah, I just heard this on the radio when I went to the store. This makes the whole thing even more avoidable.

[Badger]

12 hours ago, Old Man said:

He was also only armed with a taser. Perhaps tasers become WMDs in the hands of civilians?

Well there was some outrage a few years ago for a suspect dying from a bad reaction to tazing in my area.

[Cygnia]

Fox News Mistakes 'Monty Python' Quote As BLM Radical Agenda

[Starlord]

FWIW, in 2012 Amnesty International called for stricter use of Tasers by police.  They claimed they had been responsible for 500 deaths since 2001.  Thus, in the eyes of AI, a Taser is actually a lethal weapon.

 

Also - playing Devil's Advocate here - perhaps a case could be made for an officer drawing his firearm against someone holding a Taser due to the fact that the Taser could easily render the officer helpless and then be seriously injured or killed.

 

Obviously though, it seems clear that fatal mistakes were made by the officer's during the period leading up to the initial scuffle.

[Pattern Ghost]

In general, yes, you'd want to shoot someone who is capable of Tasing you and taking your sidearm. In this case, the guy had already discharged the Taser, and missed. I don't believe the timing fits within the usual reactionary gap model I linked above, so IMO it was a bad shoot.

[Old Man]

3 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

 

Also - playing Devil's Advocate here - perhaps a case could be made for an officer drawing his firearm against someone holding a Taser due to the fact that the Taser could easily render the officer helpless and then be seriously injured or killed.

 

Tasers have one shot, and there were two cops. However, I’m not sure how the taser was built pointswise. Perhaps the civilian could have spread the beam, or executed a Sweep maneuver. 

[TrickstaPriest]

I can't speak about this specific incident, but in general there's quite a high list of unarmed shootings.  "Resist arrest" is often used as an excuse even when video evidence contradicts them.  Furthermore, I strongly expect human beings' natural reactions to resist force (just in the most basic way, not violently) acted on them are what are provoking the often lethal counter responses from officers.

[Lord Liaden]

What saddens me most is that the video shows the police starting a calm, respectful discussion with the civilian. He offered to the police to leave his car and walk to his sister's place. Up to that point I would have said I was watching a welcome example of sensible, responsible policing. I still can't understand why things got so out of control.

[Ragitsu]

52 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I still can't understand why things got so out of control.

 

"Where men gather, a bustle of chaos ensues. I would save them all if I could."

[Dr. MID-Nite]

12 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

 

"Where men gather, a bustle of chaos ensues. I would save them all if I could."

 

Keldorn for the win.

[Old Man]

 

And some American PDs actively discourage college educated applicants.

[Ragitsu]

20 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

And some American PDs actively discourage college educated applicants.

 

We can't have decent police, universal healthcare or universal college-tier education because there are non-white people living here, don'tcha know?

[BNakagawa]

1 minute ago, Ragitsu said:

 

We can't have decent police, universal healthcare or universal college-tier education because there are non-white people living here, don'tcha know?

[Old Man]

6 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

 

We can't have decent police, universal healthcare or universal college-tier education because there are non-white people living here, don'tcha know?

 

I'm gonna be honest, I never thought about those topics from that viewpoint before.  It all makes so much sense now.

 

And now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go curl up in a fetal position in the corner.

[Ragitsu]

To be fair, the next goalpost that racial supremacists move to once you point out prosperous non-white civilizations is "Oh, well, but you see...so-and-so nation is ethnically homogeneous." They imply (none too subtly) that any nation can be great if it remains an ethnostate.

[ScottishFox]

On 6/16/2020 at 1:03 PM, Old Man said:

Tasers have one shot, and there were two cops.

 

There are models of taser that (X2 and X3) that have 2 or 3 shots respectively.  To be fair - I have no idea how many shots were available in the tasers being used in the shooting.

19 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

What saddens me most is that the video shows the police starting a calm, respectful discussion with the civilian. He offered to the police to leave his car and walk to his sister's place. Up to that point I would have said I was watching a welcome example of sensible, responsible policing. I still can't understand why things got so out of control.

 

From what I saw:  The cops transition to arrest VERY abruptly and do not give the guy the chance to mentally process that he's about to be arrested.  Also, he was on probation so this was likely to result in an extended jail/prison stay combined with being drunk - he probably panicked decided to fight and flee rather than go back to prison.  Which - I think would have worked had he not fired the taser at the cop.

 

Edit:  Turns out those were two-shot tasers - but that was the 2nd shot, so it was not dangerous from that point.

[ScottishFox]

2 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

To be fair, the next goalpost that racial supremacists move to once you point out prosperous non-white civilizations is "Oh, well, but you see...so-and-so nation is ethnically homogeneous." They imply (none too subtly) that any nation can be great if it remains an ethnostate.

 

Man, you can see that here in America.  Multiple Asian groups and Ashkenazi Jews stomp white America in terms of education, lifetime earnings and have much lower rates of criminality.

 

You don't need homogeneous anything.

 

As an example - Asian females are 65x less likely to be shot by police - on a per capita basis - than white men.