Supergirl

[Pattern Ghost]

Batman: The Brave and the Bold did it better.

 

Neal Patrick Harris!

 

NPH makes everything better.

[zslane]

Every last one of them can sing. The song selection, however, left something to be desired.

 

If that was a "Musical Episode", then standards for musical episodes have really dropped precipitously over the years. The ratio of singing/dancing to spoken dialogue was about 10%/90%, unlike Once More, With Feeling which was the other way around. And this Flash episode didn't do much to advance plot or character development beyond helping two couples patch things up. Very disappointing.

[Bazza]

Every last one of them can sing. The song selection, however, left something to be desired.

Agree.

 

For me Audrey sings it better.

[Bazza]

How The Flash Just Pulled off the Best Musical TV Episode of All Time

Move over “Once More with Feeling.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/03/the-flash-musical-recap-duet-best-musical-tv-episode

 

Comment: I don't agree with this. The Flash episode had no real stakes, unlike this week's Legends episode. From what I remember Once More with Feeling had stakes as well--things mattered if the heroes failed. The Supergirl-Flash dream sequence had no consequences; nothing was threatened.

 

However the article has a good point that Joss was a first time songwriter and the songs felt a little ameatuerish, whereas Flash asked professional songwriters to write. Also the article's observation that Buffy had non-singers sing while Flash asked those with ability & training to sing. And Flash episode had really good production values.

 

But as it was all a "dream sequence" and we knew that things would turn out for the best in the end, I couldn't get into it.

[Pattern Ghost]

If that was a "Musical Episode", then standards for musical episodes have really dropped precipitously over the years. The ratio of singing/dancing to spoken dialogue was about 10%/90%, unlike Once More, With Feeling which was the other way around. And this Flash episode didn't do much to advance plot or character development beyond helping two couples patch things up. Very disappointing.

 

That about sums it up for me too. I was hoping for better.

[zslane]

However the article has a good point that Joss was a first time songwriter and the songs felt a little ameatuerish, whereas Flash asked professional songwriters to write. Also the article's observation that Buffy had non-singers sing while Flash asked those with ability & training to sing. And Flash episode had really good production values.

 

Well, in my view Joss's songs were head and shoulders above the Flash songs. They were more clever (lyrically), more stylistically varied, and far more deeply integrated into the ongoing storyline of the show. There were also a whole lot more of them; an entire CD's worth, in fact.

 

Of the Buffy cast, at least half of those asked to sing had genuine singing talent. Nevertheless, the use of the non-singers among them made the episode feel more authentic, especially given that the events were actually happening to the characters; it was not just some dream sequence.

 

Once More, With Feeling remains the gold standard for "musical episodes", IMO. In fact, I watched it again last night after watching the Flash episode, just to see if it held up after more than 15 years, and it still does. Superbly.

[Bazza]

Cool. I've only seen that Buffy episode once, and that was over 10 years ago. Agree for the most part with your comments.

[Clonus]

How The Flash Just Pulled off the Best Musical TV Episode of All Time

Move over “Once More with Feeling.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/03/the-flash-musical-recap-duet-best-musical-tv-episode

 

Comment: I don't agree with this. The Flash episode had no real stakes, unlike this week's Legends episode. From what I remember Once More with Feeling had stakes as well--things mattered if the heroes failed. The Supergirl-Flash dream sequence had no consequences; nothing was threatened.

 

However the article has a good point that Joss was a first time songwriter and the songs felt a little ameatuerish, whereas Flash asked professional songwriters to write. 

 

And yet I wouldn't bother to listen to a single song from the Flash episode again, whereas I am always willing to give Standing in the Way, Rest in Peace or What You Feel another listen.  

[Ternaugh]

I finished the episode, and basically thought to myself, "well, that was a disappointment." After reading the comments here, I realize that I'll always think of it now as The Flash: One Meh with Failings.

[Tanis Frey]

When Buffy did it's musical episode, there was a bid emotional reveal during it. Flash, not so much.

 

Buffy told the scubies that she thinks that she was in heaven when they raised her from the dead. Flash, we just confirmed the characters feels from the year(s)-long love story arcs.

 

I also liked the Buffy episode where they could not speak. Joss was smart to have almost no sound track in that episode to emphasize the silence.

[zslane]

There were significant, season-defining consequences that came out of the Buffy musical episode:

1. Buffy reveals that she was yanked out of heaven by her friends, sending her best friend into a guilt-driven spiral of self-destruction.
2. Buffy trades one big secret in for another as she takes the first steps in a torrid (horrid?) sex tryst with her arch-nemesis.
3. Buffy's father-figure essentially abandons her in the belief that his presence is preventing her from fully maturing.
4. Tara discovers she's been the victim of a mind manipulation spell cast by her lover, ultimately leading to tragedy. When she sings the song I'm Under Your Spell, the dramatic irony of its dual meaning is heartbreaking.
5. Xander and Anya's engagement unravels from the FUD revealed/expressed during their I'll Never Tell number.

Once More, With Feeling was not merely a fun little episode with a few songs thrown in, it was a major pivot point of the season's narrative, and a life-altering moment for nearly every main character. Every word of every song was a vital part of the engine that propelling those events forward. Joss Whedon was a huge fan of Sondheim and devoutly studied the form for many, many years. He may have been a first-time composer, but he was no amateur.

[Bazza]

Fair enough. I had forgotten a lot of that. Thanks & cheers.

[slikmar]

There were significant, season-defining consequences that came out of the Buffy musical episode:

1. Buffy reveals that she was yanked out of heaven by her friends, sending her best friend into a guilt-driven spiral of self-destruction.
2. Buffy trades one big secret in for another as she takes the first steps in a torrid (horrid?) sex tryst with her arch-nemesis.
3. Buffy's father-figure essentially abandons her in the belief that his presence is preventing her from fully maturing.
4. Tara discovers she's been the victim of a mind manipulation spell cast by her lover, ultimately leading to tragedy. When she sings the song I'm Under Your Spell, the dramatic irony of its dual meaning is heartbreaking.
5. Xander and Anya's engagement unravels from the FUD revealed/expressed during their I'll Never Tell number.

Once More, With Feeling was not merely a fun little episode with a few songs thrown in, it was a major pivot point of the season's narrative, and a life-altering moment for nearly every main character. Every word of every song was a vital part of the engine that propelling those events forward. Joss Whedon was a huge fan of Sondheim and devoutly studied the form for many, many years. He may have been a first-time composer, but he was no amateur.

Well, the bad guy was a demon summoned by one of the characters, after all. Although he liked music, he was all about causing pain through truth. Thought in a lot of ways he was a great counter-point to Lorne from Angel, who also used music, but was much more benevolent about it.

[Matt the Bruins]

I definitely think "Once More, With Feeling" was more profound and had better songs. Though you'll never hear me complaining about getting to hear Jesse L. Martin and Victor Garber sing, and I thought Benoist did a great job with her solo too. Hell, I was even able to stand Jeremy Jordan and Carlos Valdez while they were singing, and normally their character (no, using the singular there is not a typo, they're the same damn character with different hairstyles) is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

 

Galavant still sets the high water mark for TV musical shows as far as I'm concerned, but it was an actual musical rather than a musical episode and Alan Menken was writing the songs.

[sinanju]

I'll just note for the record, that while we're discussing the Supergirl/Flash crossover, we're all talking about the FLASH episode. Why?

 

Because it was another ****ing bait-n-switch. We got maybe two minutes of crossover in the Supergirl episode, which was otherwise completely taken up with a different storyline entirely. The first time they claimed that they simply didn't have the time/money/whatever to do more following the switch from CBS to CW. That excuse won't fly this time.

[Bazza]

Agree with Sinanju.

 

Less of a crossover and more of "guest stars from Supergirl in The Flash".

[Pattern Ghost]

The Flash is probably the higher-rated show, so think of it as more of a marketing gimmick for Supergirl than a crossover.

[Bazza]

Yeah, good call.

[zslane]

Because it was another ****ing bait-n-switch. We got maybe two minutes of crossover in the Supergirl episode, which was otherwise completely taken up with a different storyline entirely.

 

Well, Supergirl and friends did cross over...into Flash, so technically it was a crossover event. But I agree, it was irritating for the crossover to only really cross over into one of the two shows.

[BoloOfEarth]

In fairness, when Flash crossed over into Supergirl, there was even less of an impact on the Flash show.  Did he even mention any of his time on Supergirl's Earth to his Star Labs crew at the time?

[zslane]

No, he didn't. He kept it a secret for some reason.

[Tanis Frey]

No, he didn't. He kept it a secret for some reason.

they mentioned the Flash talked to Vibe in an off air scene about his crossing into supergirl's world.

 

Not everything has to be on screen.

[BoloOfEarth]

they mentioned the Flash talked to Vibe in an off air scene about his crossing into supergirl's world.

 

Not everything has to be on screen.

 

My point was that, if you were only watching Flash at the time and hadn't caught any of the promos on CBS, you'd have had no idea that he crossed over into Supergirl's world until well after the fact.  (I believe the mention you noted was in a later episode - I think the Dominators crossover, in the next season?).  But in that first "crossover" episode on Flash, IIRC, they showed that he breached (to Supergirl's world, though they didn't say that at the time), and returned, seeming shocked that no time had passed but with no on-air explanation (again, at that time) as to why he was reacting that way.

[bigdamnhero]

I enjoyed the episode for what it was. But yeah, it didn't really advance the plot of either show in any meaningful way, other than to explain why the writers had both couples break up for questionable reasons. Most of the singing was good, and "Super Friends" was silly fun.

 

But yeah, Buffy Once More With Feeling is still the gold standard, even with some not-ready-for-primetime singing skills from Buffy & Spike.

[zslane]

It's amusing that Spike's singing is regarded as sub-par. At the time, James Marsters was quietly doing local gigs as a two-man alt-rock group he threw together in LA. As I recall, he sang and played guitar to a crowd of mostly adoring goth chicks. It was pretty dull and largely forgettable.