Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

 

Yeah.  Health care feels like a social program type thing.  Not the Republican's strong suite...

 

Then they ought to either make it their strong suit, or stop using it as a talking point to deflect from how they simply block anything the Democrats try to pass, whatever its merits.

 

[Sigh] That may have come out too harsh, and if so I apologize to you, Tom. But I get frustrated by arguments that sound like they're characterizing the Democrats and the Republicans as two sides of the same coin. They aren't, at all, and their own words and actions demonstrate that. This isn't about liberalism versus conservatism -- that's a legitimate political discourse, with valid arguments on both sides. But in Congress it stopped being about that years ago. This is about democracy versus fascism, and the GOP are trying to shroud that reality in smoke and mirrors.

 

[Deep breath] Apologies again. I guess that rant was building for a while.

[death tribble]

Kanye West has announced a 2024 Presidential bid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63754702

 

Rooting for the underdog is laudable but not in this case. The last person without political experience who had the job was voted out after 4 years. I believe that the American public will have that in mind.

[Tom]

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Then they ought to either make it their strong suit, or stop using it as a talking point to deflect from how they simply block anything the Democrats try to pass, whatever its merits.

 

[Sigh] That may have come out too harsh, and if so I apologize to you, Tom. But I get frustrated by arguments that sound like they're characterizing the Democrats and the Republicans as two sides of the same coin. They aren't, at all, and their own words and actions demonstrate that. This isn't about liberalism versus conservatism -- that's a legitimate political discourse, with valid arguments on both sides. But in Congress it stopped being about that years ago. This is about democracy versus fascism, and the GOP are trying to shroud that reality in smoke and mirrors.

 

[Deep breath] Apologies again. I guess that rant was building for a while.

 

No offense taken.  I don't belong to either party, so I can usually find at least some fault with both - even if I can sometimes have an easier time understanding one over the other regardless of whether or not I agree.

 

My favorite quote about being of the same coin actually comes from an old Champions supplement.  "... might be differ'nt sides of the same coin, but they ain't the same side."  (more or less, I'm too lazy to go digging for the book right now)

[wcw43921]

Nearly 300 Books Banned In Missouri Schools

[tkdguy]

 

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, wcw43921 said:

Nearly 300 Books Banned In Missouri Schools

 

In retaliation, I am banning Missouri.  Everyone here is expected to comply.

[L. Marcus]

Another US place I thought was fictional.

[Cygnia]

I only wish Missouri was fictional

 

(SO glad the hubby's parents no longer live there -- not that Ohio is much better)

[Lord Liaden]

31 minutes ago, tkdguy said:

 

 

American exceptionalism is part of American mythology. It's a myth whose perpetuation is useful to those elites who want to keep the bulk of the populace exploitable. If you think your country is already the best, you won't agitate as hard to improve it.

[unclevlad]

5 hours ago, wcw43921 said:

Nearly 300 Books Banned In Missouri Schools

 

From the story:

Quote

"These districts seemingly sought to purge any potentially offending visual material to avoid running afoul of the new law," Friedman said. "In so doing, they have cast aside the rights of students to read and learn, as well as the fundamental mission of public education and school libraries.”

 

Now, OK, it's easy to assert the school districts might've been somewhat inclined to ban them anyway, but in some cases?  Probably not.  A year and $2000 is a very, VERY serious consequence, so it absolutely creates a preference to ban.  (Plus, while it might not be automatic, anyone convicted here would very likely be fired, and effectively blacklisted.)

 

 

EDIT...got merged.  Oh well.  Separate report:

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/25/1139180002/twitter-loses-50-top-advertisers-elon-musk

 

$750M of advertising *this year*.  

[Cygnia]

https://toad.social/@jimstewartson/109411217257932222

[Lord Liaden]

 

[BNakagawa]

No comment on whether he was near a window.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/belarus-foreign-minister-makei-dies-135204430.html

 

[DShomshak]

23 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I've seen this argument elsewhere, too: That McCarthy will have to suck up to even the looniest Republican extremists in order to become and stay Speaker. Note the assumption that he will, and must, hustle for votes only from Republicans. This is not actually a law of nature or imposed by the Constitution. It is at least Constitutionally possible for McCarthy, or any other representative, to put his/her/other name out there and stump for votes from both parties.

 

In this scenario, McCarthy (or whoever) might talk to moderate Democrats and try to sell himself as a centrist candidate, enabling the House to do some actual legislating on issues where strong majorities of Americans agree, cutting out the culture war fringes of both parties.

 

But that would require McCarthy actually to come up with such an agenda. My estimation of his character is that he can't, or won't. And he's said enough that even if he did try, I would not recommend any Democrat to believe him.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

Getting away from the perpetual dumpster fire that is American politics, the November 19, 2022 issue of The Economist has a rather interesting article on what's happening in Indonesia -- as it says, the most important country in the world that one hardly ever hears about. But it's the fourth-most populous country in the world, very large geographically, with large stocks of resources that will become terribly important in coming decades. Its politics are also getting on a more democratic footing while staying out of current superpower rivalries. All in all, a healthy reminder that the rest of the world still exists even when the West isn't looking at it.

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

Another story, rather less positive, in NYT today.  Not one we hear much about, even tho it's pretty much in our back yard.

 

The opening para, as it's likely paywalled:
 

Quote

Haiti is in the middle of a humanitarian disaster. Gang warfare has deepened since the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse in the summer of 2021. Hunger has intensified. Cholera is spreading, as it has before, partly because armed groups are preventing doctors from providing care.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/briefing/haiti-cholera.html

[Lawnmower Boy]

5 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Getting away from the perpetual dumpster fire that is American politics, the November 19, 2022 issue of The Economist has a rather interesting article on what's happening in Indonesia -- as it says, the most important country in the world that one hardly ever hears about. But it's the fourth-most populous country in the world, very large geographically, with large stocks of resources that will become terribly important in coming decades. Its politics are also getting on a more democratic footing while staying out of current superpower rivalries. All in all, a healthy reminder that the rest of the world still exists even when the West isn't looking at it.

 

Dean Shomshak

That's crazy talk. I just looked at a map. It's a bunch of smidgy little islands down near Australia with names like Celebes and Borneo, like that's a real word. 

 

Now, about the race for the GOP vice-presidential nomination: MTG or Tulsi?

[unclevlad]

49 minutes ago, Lawnmower Boy said:

That's crazy talk. I just looked at a map. It's a bunch of smidgy little islands down near Australia with names like Celebes and Borneo, like that's a real word. 

 

Now, about the race for the GOP vice-presidential nomination: MTG or Tulsi?

 

Careful there.  You're dissing the home of some of the truly OUTSTANDING coffees.  This is highly dangerous.

 

Given that Trump is the current nominee-presumptive...neither.  Trump accept a female running mate?  Not gonna happen, IMO.

[dmjalund]

he tried to get his last running mate hanged.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, gossip suggests DJT might be in the market for a new trophy wife soon...

 

Seriously, gender seems to be less important to Trump than obsequiousness, and both Green and Lake have been fawning hard over him. I watched video of a recent public meeting by Lake where Donnie was in the audience, in which Lake referred to her husband as "my second-favorite man."

[Lord Liaden]

8 hours ago, DShomshak said:

I've seen this argument elsewhere, too: That McCarthy will have to suck up to even the looniest Republican extremists in order to become and stay Speaker. Note the assumption that he will, and must, hustle for votes only from Republicans. This is not actually a law of nature or imposed by the Constitution. It is at least Constitutionally possible for McCarthy, or any other representative, to put his/her/other name out there and stump for votes from both parties.

 

In this scenario, McCarthy (or whoever) might talk to moderate Democrats and try to sell himself as a centrist candidate, enabling the House to do some actual legislating on issues where strong majorities of Americans agree, cutting out the culture war fringes of both parties.

 

But that would require McCarthy actually to come up with such an agenda. My estimation of his character is that he can't, or won't. And he's said enough that even if he did try, I would not recommend any Democrat to believe him.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

McCarthy has already announced that he intends to remove several specific prominent Democrats from House committees, and to launch an "investigation" of Biden's student-debt forgiveness initiative. If there were any bridges to the Democrats left after his past behavior, McCarthy not only burned them, he nuked them.

 

The Republican majority in the House is razor-thin, and given the deep factional divides in the GOP, I suppose it's not impossible that the new Democratic leader could cobble together enough votes to be elected Speaker.

[Lord Liaden]

8 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Getting away from the perpetual dumpster fire that is American politics, the November 19, 2022 issue of The Economist has a rather interesting article on what's happening in Indonesia -- as it says, the most important country in the world that one hardly ever hears about. But it's the fourth-most populous country in the world, very large geographically, with large stocks of resources that will become terribly important in coming decades. Its politics are also getting on a more democratic footing while staying out of current superpower rivalries. All in all, a healthy reminder that the rest of the world still exists even when the West isn't looking at it.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

Indonesia is potentially very important to the shifting power balance in the Asia Pacific resulting from China's increasing assertion of dominance in the region. Relations with the United States have historically been positive and cooperative.

[Starlord]

Trump has a meeting with White Supremacist Fuentes and Kanye because it's a day ending in Y.  Next?

[Pariah]

 

Trump Demands Kari Lake Be Made Arizona Governor After Her Defeat

[unclevlad]

This BS is why getting Trump's endorsement is now a BAD thing.  It simply no longer plays.  

 

Yahoo story's headline is very bad in one sense:  The tweet says Lake "should be installed".  Using "demands" is spin-doctoring in a highly partisan way.  Had it been a speech, then intonation and delivery might justify it, but the words, at least of the tweet they cite, do not.

 

To go back a couple days...this is also why Lake would be a *horrible* choice for running mate.  The only thing she brings to the table is election denial.  

 

Oh...lemme fix that.  Horrible choice for the Republicans.  I think even Biden could beat a Trump-Lake ticket.