TrickstaPriest Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Yeah. Definitely feels like "whole party vs Bernie" kind of way. In the end, I will have to vote against Trump. But this is more or less how you self-sabotage your own party in the long term. I'm guessing everyone is assuming either short memories or calculating they don't care about the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Just now, TrickstaPriest said: Yeah. Definitely feels like "whole party vs Bernie" kind of way. In the end, I will have to vote against Trump. But this is more or less how you self-sabotage your own party in the long term. I'm guessing everyone is assuming either short memories or calculating they don't care about the cost. I want Bernie or Warren to get the spot, but I don't mind this too much even if I don't necessarily LIKE it. It's legitimate consolidation, even if no doubt some might be trying to get a cabinet position or the like. The media has pressed the idea that if the 'centrists/moderates' weren't scattered they'd have more than Bernie, and testing that was going to happen sooner or later. I didn't expect it this soon, but it makes sense if they do want to maximize their chances to prove that theory. Shrewd, yes. Working the system a bit? SURELy. But at least it feels legit to me, not a cheat. I do think it will be interesting to see how many of Pete and Amy's former supporters head their attempts to move them towards Biden. Folks are folks, and if only a third of those voters instead go for Bernie and Elizabeth, it could be very telling on how popular certain left wing ideas are. I still worry Biden won't be able to inspire come November, but like you I'll vote against Trump. Ranxerox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hermit said: I want Bernie or Warren to get the spot, but I don't mind this too much even if I don't necessarily LIKE it. It's legitimate consolidation, even if no doubt some might be trying to get a cabinet position or the like. The media has pressed the idea that if the 'centrists/moderates' weren't scattered they'd have more than Bernie, and testing that was going to happen sooner or later. I didn't expect it this soon, but it makes sense if they do want to maximize their chances to prove that theory. Yeah, been hearing that the Dems party has had huge issues in consolidating as well. My only problem with that is the Dem party has changed so much issues like healthcare reform or the environment (or the technological spying overreach ingrown into every aspect of our governance) will not be addressed for literal multiple decades. That's going to be way too late on all of those issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Just now, TrickstaPriest said: Yeah, been hearing that the Dems party has had huge issues in consolidating as well. My only problem with that is the Dem party has changed so much issues like healthcare reform or the environment (or the technological spying overreach ingrown into every aspect of our governance) will not be addressed for literal multiple decades. That's going to be way too late on all of those issues. Yeah, I fear that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 I am getting sick of so many people, even within the Democratic Party, characterizing Bernie Sanders as a Socialist, even a radical. Sanders is definitely not a radical, and also isn't a Socialist. He's an old-school, New Deal Social Democrat. In any other developed democracy on the planet, he'd be considered a centrist. To the true Socialists in American society he's a compromise candidate. But if he has the most support within the party come the convention, and the DNC tries to shut him out or smear him further, those left-leaning Americans will decide compromise isn't possible in the USA today, and they'll become more radical. That's a formula for social polarization that may make what we're going through now look like a folk dance. Dr. MID-Nite, TrickstaPriest, Old Man and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Great, 2 'hearty' Octogenarians vying to be America's savior. Without a truly impressive unifying figure like Obama, the Democrats will lose. If Sanders (who is being as cagey with his recent health issues as Trump is about his taxes) is the nominee, Trump will yell "Socialist" for a few months and crush him in November. Biden will fumble along being his usual unimpressive self for a few months and Trump will crush him in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, Starlord said: Great, 2 'hearty' Octogenarians vying to be America's savior. Without a truly impressive unifying figure like Obama, the Democrats will lose. If Sanders (who is being as cagey with his recent health issues as Trump is about his taxes) is the nominee, Trump will yell "Socialist" for a few months and crush him in November. Biden will fumble along being his usual unimpressive self for a few months and Trump will crush him in November. Three if you count Bloomberg EDIT: Fact Checked by LL... 70s And I'm not so sure Trump trashing Bernie as a socialist will work as well as he hopes. Some of the things Trump SAID he would do when he first ran that drew attention, well, Bernie seems more sincere about. (Draining the swamp, rich people will pay more, etc_) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Cant say Bloomberg or Warren wont be up to get whacked. The liberal Trump or as often is said the fake Native American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Technically, Sanders and Biden are still in their 70s. So is Elizabeth Warren. And so is Donald Trump. The promise of a new generation leading American politics seems to have skidded after Obama. We may have to wait for more of them to die off. 💀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, Starlord said: Great, 2 'hearty' Octogenarians vying to be America's savior. Without a truly impressive unifying figure like Obama, the Democrats will lose. Well, you didn't run, so we have to make do. Starlord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, Hermit said: Some of the things Trump SAID he would do when he first ran that drew attention, well, Bernie seems more sincere about. (Draining the swamp, rich people will pay more, etc_) Exactly. Joe's a nice guy (and orders of magnitude better than the current occupant) but I have no idea what his convictions or values are, so I have no idea how hard he'll fight for any of them. There's no question where Bernie or Elizabeth stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 At this point, what has to happen for a candidate who's not batguano insane to win the Democratic nomination? More to the point, what has to happen for a candidate who can beat Donald Trump in a general election to win the Democratic nomination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Old Man said: Well, you didn't run, so we have to make do. I wouldn't debate Trump, I'd challenge him to steel cage match. It's the best way to earn the respect of his supporters. Matt the Bruins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Just now, Starlord said: I wouldn't debate Trump, I'd challenge him to steel cage match. It's the best way to earn the respect of his supporters. He has a doctor's note to get out of those Starlord and Lord Liaden 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Pariah said: At this point, what has to happen for a candidate who's not batguano insane to win the Democratic nomination? More to the point, what has to happen for a candidate who can beat Donald Trump in a general election to win the Democratic nomination? Can you name someone who is gonna get more votes than Hillary? Sadly, I don't think so. Stupid EC saves Trump again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, Starlord said: Can you name someone who is gonna get more votes than Hillary? Sadly, I don't think so. Stupid EC saves Trump again. Hopefully some of the Great Lakes and Mid West States will be more inclined towards Bernie than they were Hillary. I admit, that is a HOPE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 There are plenty of disaffected Republicans (and ex-Republicans) who would vote for a reasonable (e.g., moderate) Democrat if one were presented. It would help, of course, if that Democrat didn't publicly disparage everyone who holds different political views than (s)he does. In terms of the EC, win Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania...you know, the Labor-rich states that Democrats traditionally win. Florida would help, too. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 ironically, the Dems have forgotten the value of the workers' vote. Hermit, TrickstaPriest and Starlord 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Badger said: ironically, the Dems have forgotten the value of the workers' vote. YUP. Or taken it for granted. TrickstaPriest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 Israel had another general election today, the third in eleven months. Netayahu seems to have won. His trial for corruption starts in a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 minute ago, L. Marcus said: Israel had another general election today, the third in eleven months. Netayahu seems to have won. His trial for corruption starts in a couple of weeks. Yaaay other countries are ALSO confused as Bleeep.. *Thinks about it* *hangs head* Oh that's not a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, Badger said: ironically, the Dems have forgotten the value of the workers' vote. Bernie hasn’t. assault and Joe Walsh 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 It makes me chuckle when I listen to comments about Biden, Warren, and Sanders, because from a Canadian viewpoint that's about as far right-to-left as our politics usually gets. assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 3 hours ago, L. Marcus said: Israel had another general election today, the third in eleven months. Netayahu seems to have won. His trial for corruption starts in a couple of weeks. 3 hours ago, Hermit said: Yaaay other countries are ALSO confused as Bleeep.. *Thinks about it* *hangs head* Oh that's not a good thing Remember when even a rumor of impropriety was enough to sink a politician's career? Yeah, it's getting hard for me to remember, too. Integrity doesn't seem to matter anymore. Truth doesn't seem to matter anymore. It's all about us versus them, and me getting mine. TrickstaPriest, Pariah and Lee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 And Chris Matthews is gone. That was sudden, anyone know what that's about? Edit: Nevermind. Found it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wthr.com/article/chris-matthews-retires-msnbc-cites-comments-women%3famp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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