Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Old Man]

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Tolkien Gateway noted there were some who didn't, but by and large, they did.  The influence of Morgoth first, then Sauron, covered most of the First and Second Ages.  And Numenor wasn't exactly coming in as liberators.  2 Wizards worked in the East.  Apparently, late in life, Tolkien changed the story with these:

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Blue_Wizards#Later_writings

 

But still, it's a lot like the French Resistance under Nazi occupation...for millenia.  Not sure there's a story there to draw a large crowd, particularly since there was no major event connected to it to serve as a point of reference/calling card.  (As in "many Bothans died to get us this information.")  If we constrast this with, say, the Second Age and the story they're laying out in The Rings of Power...there's a lot of spectacularly cool stuff to do, before things fall apart.  I still have mixed feelings about watching it, but I'm more inclined to watch Second Age stuff than First Age.  First Age is just disaster after disaster once Ungoliant poisons the Trees.  (And it's probably too idyllic to be interesting before that, IIRC.)  

 

It amazes me that Beren and Luthien hasn't been made into a film yet.

 

Second Age would be phenomenal, if impossible to film.  It would make the Battle of the Pelennor Fields look like a soccer game.

 

But there are plenty of conflicts and loose ends at the start of the Fourth Age to base a show on.  I have yet to see even a preview for RoP but you have:

 

- A new King of Gondor trying to live up to his father's legacy;

- An unspecified number of sisters of that king;

- Gondor and the various Haradrim and Easterling countries trying to come to terms after centuries of warfare;

- Haradrim and Easterling countries to explore;

- Two blue wizards returning from the East;

- All of Mordor to clean up;

- A power vacuum left by the departing Elves;

- The rise of dark cults in Gondor itself;

- All kinds of ruins, artifacts, and creatures that might turn up.

 

The worldbuilding in Middle-Earth is so deep that there's no shortage of material to work with, even in the Fourth Age which is practically a clean slate.

[DShomshak]

Yeah, the part of the LotR Appendices that somehow leaped out at me was the brief mention of the captive human population in Mordor, around the lake of Nurn. For centuries they'd been slaves of Suron, forced to farm to support his orc armies. I always wanted to know more about those people, and what happened to them after Sauron's fall. Especially after the unraveling of Yugoslavia and the USSR, I suspected that the aftermath of Sauron's fall would not be Happily Ever After.

 

One reviewer of LotR sniffed that "throwing a magic ring into a volcano is not a solution to the Problem of Evil." I suspect he never actually read LotR, or he might have noticed the extended epilog in the Shire, dealing with Saruman's takeover. Tolkien made it clear that destroying the One Ring ended *an* evil. But there are always more villains waiting for their chance.

 

A Fourth Age series would be quite different from Lord of the Rings: a struggle to establish a just order after the destruction of war and the chaos after a despot's fall. But it could be an equally epic tale -- and all the nobler for the recognition that the struggle can never truly end.

 

Dean Shomshak

[BNakagawa]

Russian defenses collapse in the east. Perhaps 1000 sq. miles of territory taken in a few days. 

 

 

[Iuz the Evil]

32 minutes ago, BNakagawa said:

Russian defenses collapse in the east. Perhaps 1000 sq. miles of territory taken in a few days. 

 

 

Yeah this is major news, not getting enough coverage. Russian response will be interesting, they’re down to buying ammo and artillery shells from North Korea. 
 

And then there’s the fact that…

 

[Ragitsu]

^ What's with the off-topic chatter in the Lord of the Rings thread?

[Iuz the Evil]

10 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

^ What's with the off-topic chatter in the Lord of the Rings thread?

I’m not that into Amazon fan fiction.

[Lawnmower Boy]

1 hour ago, Ragitsu said:

^ What's with the off-topic chatter in the Lord of the Rings thread?

Yeah, let's talk about the new female ruler of that offshore western island. Is she going to reduce the VAT, cap energy bills, or invade the Undying Lands? 

 

[BNakagawa]

Not sure how sustainable this is, but the gaps in the russian defense lines appear huge. If the Ukranians have the troops to exploit this situation, this could put severe pressure on the russians attempt to expand their holdings in the Donetsk region.

 

 

[unclevlad]

Ya gotta think Putin is irate, as this has blown past embarrassing, through utterly humiliating, and straight into a total debacle.  Newsweek published a story that helicopters are being used to capture deserters in the Kherson region.  It's not confirmed but given what we've been hearing all along, it certainly feels credible.

[Old Man]

10 hours ago, Ragitsu said:

^ What's with the off-topic chatter in the Lord of the Rings thread?

 

Is it off topic when Russians are known as orcs and Russia is referred to as Mordor?

 

And things do seem to be collapsing for the orcs almost as fast as if someone had pitched a ring into Orodruin.  Near as I can tell they moved anyone who could actually fight into Kherson, where they are now trapped, and there's no one left to resist the Ukrainians anywhere else.

[BNakagawa]

 

[Iuz the Evil]

[L. Marcus]

This is Election Day in Sweden, for local, regional, and national representatives. I'm off to the ballot box in a little while. 

 

This time, for the first time ever, I'm more voting against than for something. And this thing is the Sweden Democrats (SD) -- avowedly national conservative by their own description, founded by actual Nazis. Their party program has passages lifted almost verbatim from Mein Kampf and speaks about "peoples' essence". They admire Victor Orbán and Vladimir Putin and other authoritarian right-wingers. They are populists, and say what they think will get them elected. They invent problems, or wildly blow them out of proportion. They are for "law and order", but no other party comes even close to having as many convicted among their representatives and party functionaries -- law and order for thee, but not for me.

 

That's the bullet points, and I think you can imagine the rest. On their own, they wouldn't be that much of a problem; they got 17.5% of the votes in the national elections four years ago, and hold 62 seats out of 349 in the Riksdag. They poll below this as of today.

 

But they are not on their own. The Moderates and the Christian Democrats (more garden-variety conservatives, of the fiscal and the social kinds respectively) and the Liberals (once actual liberals, but nowadays seems to me more of "We need to have a seat in the government or fade into oblivion!" desperates than anything) are ready to form a government with the support -- or with the actual participation -- of SD.

 

Riding a tiger and all that. I smell a von Papen moment coming along if the blue-brown block gets the upper hand.

[Cygnia]

Ugh.  Good luck, L. Marcus.

[unclevlad]

Good luck to us all.  Reports for the last couple years have indicated hard-right, nationalistic, authoritarian parties on the upswing in many places.

[BNakagawa]

Russian sources claim that Ukranians have raided THEIR territory and stole vehicles.

 

[Lord Liaden]

 

[Ternaugh]

[Cygnia]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/queen-elizabeth-ii-edinburgh-woman-arrested-after-protest-breaks-out-on-royal-mile-3839377

[DShomshak]

In today's All Things Considered discussion of Ukraine's spectacular weekend advance, the reporter noted that Ukrainians are making a new round of jokes about Russia making big donations to the Ukrainian military -- the retreating troops left so much weaponry and ammunition behind.

 

Dean Shomshak

[BNakagawa]

The ammunition is almost more important than the vehicles to the Ukranians, because 6 months of fighting has certainly depleted their stockpiles of ammo, and while the flow of munitions from the west are great, the only places they can get more for the bulk of their army is from former soviet bloc nations like Poland and Romania (who have limited quantities), China (yeah, no), North Korea (lol) or Russia (involuntarily).

[pinecone]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:30 PM, Old Man said:

Widespread gun theft is a popular misconception. In reality stolen guns are used in less than 20% of crimes. Over 75% of guns used in mass shootings are legally obtained. 
 

The uncomfortable conclusion is that legal gun owners are the problem. I’m sure very few of them acquire their guns intending for them to be stolen or used to commit murder or suicide. But in exercising their fearful “right” to arm themselves they are in reality endangering themselves along with the rest of us. 
 

 

True, me need to reformat our society. And is not a task easily solved.

 

I am sorry to have dropped out of the conversation. I had to go visit a VA hospital for a week or so.I am using provided WiFi to pop back in.

[pinecone]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:57 AM, Ragitsu said:

Isn't it "civilian-ist" to disallow armor piercing bullets? What if a corrupt or bloodthirsty police officer violently mistreats civilians? How are they supposed to fight back against bulletproof vests?

Well,it is. Nobody can in good faith claim that laws exist to protect the individual from society. Sometimes it works that way but seldom.

[pinecone]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:28 AM, Old Man said:

This is starting to come across as a bit heated.  Just letting you know lest you attract unwanted attention from short tempered mods. 
 

To answer your question, the weak and crippled are welcome to join the non-gunfight with tasers, pepper spray, or other non lethal means which are impossible to commit mass shootings with. 

Well tastes mayby, and chemical weapons can help. But there are Many laws limiting the purchase and,or carry

On 9/6/2022 at 5:26 AM, Ragitsu said:

Or, y'know, we could fix the nation from the ground up.

 

A radical thought, I know.

It is radical, most efforts result "camps"  and mass executions. So due care is needed.

On 9/6/2022 at 1:38 PM, BNakagawa said:

Arming the vulnerable is just arming predators with an extra step involved.

Says you.

[pinecone]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:26 PM, Ragitsu said:

Improving an individual's economic standing goes a LONG way towards abolishing or at the very least diminishing many of those factors which lead to acts of violence.

This. It is a social issue, not one of control.