megaplayboy Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Shipers just caught my attention for some reason. "Shipers" are snipers who only shoot if you're not looking their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I will call it George and I will hug it and squeeze it. You're dethpicable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete "Shipers" are snipers who only shoot if you're not looking their way. "Shipers" go for the silent kill. Sometimes referred to as Crop-Dusters. They are particularly prevalent in bars. They strike and then walk away. The smell lingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete You're dethpicable! So I'm told Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I think I like CC better. Would there be confusion with C-Squared vs Champions 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Has anyone mentioned Hero Designer support for Champions Complete? I know I use Hero Designer religiously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Has anyone mentioned Hero Designer support for Champions Complete? I know I use Hero Designer religiously... I know Jason has spoken to Dan about it, and they plan to have it as a supported ruleset, though I'm sure the finer nuances of how & when are still TBD. I believe the current plan (subject to change, of course) involves having CC as a selectable template in HD like 5E and 6E currently are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Despite wanting "Hero System" rather than "Champions Complete" (would rather have a multigenre core book than a supers focused one); I am really looking forward to the book. I love it when authors listen to feedback and like the idea of "elegant crunch". Think of the Champions material as an extra bonus. It's STILL a multi-genre core book, but it also comes with a free campaign book. Just like the 4th Edition Champions also had the thinner Hero System book with the brownish cover full of different genre characters. The contents were the same in both books, save for the Champs stuff tacked in the back of the bigger book. I doubt if it would make much difference in price with a small print run to shave off the Champions pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I know Jason has spoken to Dan about it' date=' and they plan to have it as a supported ruleset, though I'm sure the finer nuances of how & when are still TBD. I believe the current plan (subject to change, of course) involves having CC as a selectable template in HD like 5E and 6E currently are. [/quote'] Of course I am 100% behind HD supporting CC but there is so little changes compared to 6E1 and 6E2 that creating a different template for it sends a very wrong message (you can choose 5th, 6th or CC which sounds like a new iteration). CC is 6E! I'd rather have to choose 6E template and have a check box under Campaign Rules > Rules tab to make it 100% compliant with the few skills modified and other tidbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Despite wanting "Hero System" rather than "Champions Complete" (would rather have a multigenre core book than a supers focused one); I am really looking forward to the book. I love it when authors listen to feedback and like the idea of "elegant crunch". It is "Hero Complete" just with a short Genre booklet tacked onto the end. Pretty much like 4th editions Big Blue Book was. So if you are not playing Superheroes, just Ignore the last pages of the book. Everything else is in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete And your just learning now that my spelling sucks? I knowned that fact for years. Firefox has a really nice built in spell checker. It would flag such things as "knowned" with a wavy red line below them. Then you right click the underlined words for a menu that allows you to choose the correct word (known in this case). In this era of computers there is really NO excuse for poor spelling. Grammar, now that's another issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Okay' date=' everybody who's been saying this is the kind of product they and their game groups have been wanting for years... time to pony up![/quote'] Once I'm settled into an apartment and into the swing of my new job... I plan to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Of course I am 100% behind HD supporting CC but there is so little changes compared to 6E1 and 6E2 that creating a different template for it sends a very wrong message (you can choose 5th' date=' 6th or CC which sounds like a new iteration). CC [i']is[/i] 6E! I'd rather have to choose 6E template and have a check box under Campaign Rules > Rules tab to make it 100% compliant with the few skills modified and other tidbits. Well, exactly how it works will be determined by whatever Dan thinks will work best for the programming; it's not about "sending a message." The main tweak is organizational... Getting the Power Modifiers listed alphabetically together in HD the way they will be in CC, rather than pre-split into Advantages and Limitations, like they are in 6E1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Despite wanting "Hero System" rather than "Champions Complete" (would rather have a multigenre core book than a supers focused one); I am really looking forward to the book. I love it when authors listen to feedback and like the idea of "elegant crunch". Think of the Champions material as an extra bonus. It's STILL a multi-genre core book' date=' but it also comes with a free campaign book. Just like the 4th Edition Champions also had the thinner Hero System book with the brownish cover full of different genre characters. The contents were the same in both books, save for the Champs stuff tacked in the back of the bigger book. I doubt if it would make much difference in price with a small print run to shave off the Champions pages.[/quote'] It is "Hero Complete" just with a short Genre booklet tacked onto the end. Pretty much like 4th editions Big Blue Book was. So if you are not playing Superheroes' date=' just Ignore the last pages of the book. Everything else is in there.[/quote'] He knows what it is. he's just saying he'd rather it was being predominantly presented as a universal RPG that touches equally on many genres, rather than as a superhero RPG that you can also use for many other genres. (We've also been talking about it on rpg.net.) And that's cool. No one approach will please everyone. I get why he has his preference, and I get why Hero Games wants to focus the book on superheroes. It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete And face is -- superheroes are very marketable these days.... And will probably last longer too -- five years from now everyone will wonder why zombies were ever so popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete I know I use Hero Designer religiously... And now I'm wondering about the religious uses of Hero Designer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete The main tweak is organizational... Getting the Power Modifiers listed alphabetically together in HD the way they will be in CC, rather than pre-split into Advantages and Limitations, like they are in 6E1...Hmmm, I am not sure I would even bother with that but I understand why HG would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete And will probably last longer too -- five years from now everyone will wonder why zombies were ever so popular. I'm five years ahead of the pack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Hmmm' date=' I am not sure I would even bother with that but I understand why HG would.[/quote'] I think it would confuse the heck out of new players if HD arranged all the Power Modifiers in different places than the book did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete And now I'm wondering about the religious uses of Hero Designer.... Transubstantiation: Cosmetic Transform 2d6 (Wine into Blood of Christ, healed back by drinking the wine); Gestures (Requires both hands; Ritual Movements; -1/2), Incantations (Ritual during Mass; -1/4); Active Cost 6, Real Cost 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Firefox has a really nice built in spell checker. It would flag such things as "knowned" with a wavy red line below them. Then you right click the underlined words for a menu that allows you to choose the correct word (known in this case). In this era of computers there is really NO excuse for poor spelling. Grammar' date=' now that's another issue.[/quote'] I'm pretty sure his spell checker was overloaded a long time ago. =P Besides, it's easy to tell who's speaking when I read steriaca's posts. I've gotten used to it, and there's a utility value! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete He knows what it is. he's just saying he'd rather it was being predominantly presented as a universal RPG that touches equally on many genres, rather than as a superhero RPG that you can also use for many other genres. (We've also been talking about it on rpg.net.) And that's cool. No one approach will please everyone. I get why he has his preference, and I get why Hero Games wants to focus the book on superheroes. It's all good. OK, that's cool. Personally, I think going back to the Champions branded approach may give a really nice result. In the minds of a lot of gamers Hero System = Champions. We still see folks who have probably had an old timer recommend "Champions" wander in from time to time come through and start asking what's what. Plus, the CO crowd will be able to find the PnP game more easily if they decide to check it out. I think overall, it's a good move to take advantage of the existing brand identity. Once we get folks in, we can show them all that the system can do, and that it's not just about supers. Frankly, I think most other genres sell better with a pre-defined setting attached anyway, and folks don't necessarily look for generic systems for those. The customers who do look for a generic game to build other genres/settings with seem pretty well aware of their options, so they're not really who we need to attract to bring new folks into the Hero System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Frankly' date=' I think most other genres sell better with a pre-defined setting attached anyway, and folks don't necessarily look for generic systems for those. The customers who do look for a generic game to build other genres/settings with seem pretty well aware of their options, so they're not really who we need to attract to bring new folks into the Hero System.[/quote'] FWIW that does seem to match what I find on gaming-related websites. I can't remember the last time I read someone posting on one of those sites to ask, "What generic systems are out there?" But there are plenty of questions along the lines of, "I'm thinking of using System X, Y, or Z to run such-and-such a game -- what do you recommend?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Firefox has a really nice built in spell checker. It would flag such things as "knowned" with a wavy red line below them. Then you right click the underlined words for a menu that allows you to choose the correct word (known in this case). In this era of computers there is really NO excuse for poor spelling. Grammar' date=' now that's another issue.[/quote'] Nice, but the only computer I own is a Nitendo DSi, and I use the word 'computer' extremly loosly. When I do get on a sit down computer, it is owned by my tax dollars at the public libary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: [New Product] Champions Complete OK, that's cool. Personally, I think going back to the Champions branded approach may give a really nice result. In the minds of a lot of gamers Hero System = Champions. We still see folks who have probably had an old timer recommend "Champions" wander in from time to time come through and start asking what's what. Plus, the CO crowd will be able to find the PnP game more easily if they decide to check it out. I think overall, it's a good move to take advantage of the existing brand identity. Once we get folks in, we can show them all that the system can do, and that it's not just about supers. Frankly, I think most other genres sell better with a pre-defined setting attached anyway, and folks don't necessarily look for generic systems for those. The customers who do look for a generic game to build other genres/settings with seem pretty well aware of their options, so they're not really who we need to attract to bring new folks into the Hero System. Well, I'd expect it's likely true that brand-new RPG gamers (new to RPGs altogether, not just new to Champions/HERO) are unlikely to go right for a universal RPG system unless that's what their "recruiters" play. More likely, someone coming in "cold" was drawn in by some cool-sounding setting/genre combination. The main advantage and draw of a universal RPG is elimination of changing rules when changing genres. But when you don't yet play even one genre, that probably doesn't mean anything to you. So at this late stage in the life of the tabletop RPG hobby, it probably isn't all that necessary to heavily promote Champions/HERO as a universal RPG. Hero Games is probably safe to go the route of primarily positioning it as a Supers RPG, with its universal RPG aspect as secondary. Why? Because new gamers are more likely to go for a Superhero RPG than a universal RPG anyway, and existing gamers already know Champions/HERO is a universal RPG, because it's been one for 30 years now, and has a long-standing reputation in the hobby as one of the main universal RPGs. Don't get me wrong... I'm absolutely not saying Hero Games should abandon the notion of the HERO System rules engine as a universal RPG altogether. Only that promoting it that way probably isn't necessary, and promoting it as a superhero game is probably a better bet from a sales standpoint. Definitely keep its universal aspects in there and mention them secondarily, but it's mostly veteran gamers who care about "universal" games anyway, and veteran gamers will know about it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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