Bazza Posted November 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 Pretty much echo LL above 99-100% Scott Ruggels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 21 hours ago, zslane said: I suspect the main reason superhero movies get any kind of begrudging respect from self-appointed cultural taste-makers is that they make billions of dollars and have become beloved entertainment to the masses. Superhero comic books never did that. After all, there was never an Avengers comic book "event" storyline that earned (nearly) five billion dollars for Marvel. So while some people might publicly dismiss them from their ivory towers, you can usually hear them grumbling in private envy over the money they make. That's not the Golden Age of Comics. From https://www.illustrationhistory.org/genres/comics-comic-books: Quote The period from 1938 through the mid-1940s represents the peak of comic book popularity. Whereas current monthly sales of popular comic book titles hover around 100,000 copies, in the early 1940s Superman, Batman and Captain Marvel titles each regularly sold in the range of 1.5 million copies per month. With circulation largely limited to US and Canada, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 Okay, let's do a little math. Adjusted for inflation, 1.5 million copies (per month) of a comic book with a cover price of ten cents, meant an annual gross revenue of $36M (in 2021 dollars). That doesn't even come close to the billions that individual MCU movies frequently made for Marvel Studios. And while Batman and Superman may have had incredibly wide reach, Marvel never had a comic book title that approached that kind of revenue. Maybe the X-Men titles came close in the 1980s and 1990s, but even so, no other form of media can compete with movies for total revenue potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 OTOH the budget for producing comic books is hella smaller than movies. Particularly special-effects-heavy ones. Comics can provide the most spectacular effects with just paper and ink. Scott Ruggels and Hugh Neilson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 It's also more economical when you don't pay your writers and artists for their work. Too soon...? Old Man and Christopher R Taylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 Quote That doesn't even come close to the billions that individual MCU movies frequently made for Marvel Studios Whlie true, the real money in comics is in merchandising, not the comic books. Few comics these days even make money. But the tee shirts, buttons, jammies, sheets, hats, "action figures", games etc do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: Whlie true, the real money in comics is in merchandising, not the comic books. Few comics these days even make money. But the tee shirts, buttons, jammies, sheets, hats, "action figures", games etc do. That's true, but it's even more true of movies. Cars famously made $1.5B at the box office, and ten times as much in merchandising (so far). Frozen merch made even more. The MCU made $41B on licensing in 2013 alone. And that's after Perlmutter stonewalled the Black Widow movie for years because he didn't think Black Widow toys would sell. zslane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 I've tried looking at mainstream comic books from time to time over the past decade. Comparing them to the comics I grew up with, I've almost always been disappointed. The writers don't understand inspirational heroism. The artists don't know how to tell a story graphically. It's all flash and noise, no heart. Pariah, zslane, Christopher R Taylor and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said: I've tried looking at mainstream comic books from time to time over the past decade. Comparing them to the comics I grew up with, I've almost always been disappointed. The writers don't understand inspirational heroism. The artists don't know how to tell a story graphically. It's all flash and noise, no heart. I dunno, I've come across some pretty interesting stories in the last decade or so. I just couldn't follow them at all because they started smearing storylines across four different titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Which is why I specified, "almost always" and "mainstream." Sure, there have been bright spots. But I see contemporary comics writers in general not writing for fans of the superhero genre. Sometimes I don't think they're writing even to entertain themselves. They're competing to see who can be the most "edgy" and "badass." As for artists, most of them just draw splash panels they can sell as separate art pieces, without storytelling linkage or flow. But "smearing" story lines across multiple titles really started becoming a big thing in the Nineties. It encouraged people to buy more issues to keep up with developing events. Of course that was predicated on readers finding the stories interesting enough to keep buying them. One big reason why I believe the MCU has been so successful, and why I've enjoyed so many of their movies, is that the people making them grew up reading the kind of comics I did, which shaped their understanding of and respect for the genre. That success also shows me that a great many people today are hungry for real heroes they can admire and be inspired by. Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Quote Sure, there have been bright spots. Most of the really exciting, interesting, and innovative comics content is being done in Japan right now. There is some stuff in the USA (mostly online) and as always Europe has taken better advantage of the medium. I just wish you didn't have such a deliberately provocative, politically charged, and ignorant signature, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 I would say one problem for writers of comics, especially when doing a known character (won't get into needing to retire characters and create new OR do legacies) is that most the stories have been done before, so now you have to do a new version of a story or slant, usually becoming edgier. Once The Killing Joke was done (being perhaps one of the most famous) then what are you going to have Joker do to Batman that is worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 Take his money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted November 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I just wish you didn't have such a deliberately provocative, politically charged, and ignorant signature, though. You can go into your settings under user and under signature toggle them on/off. You can also do it individually if you feel the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I just wish you didn't have such a deliberately provocative, politically charged, and ignorant signature, though. I stand by it, but I've no wish to cause offense outside of political discussions. Removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: the people making them grew up reading the kind of comics I did, which shaped their understanding of and respect for the genre. While, on the other hand, some people making superhero movies at other studios became way too infatuated with Alan Moore and his deconstructionist/subversive proclivities. We got guys like Ennis who hates anything resembling traditional heroics, and guys like Snyder who thinks everyone is as jaded and tired of classic superhero storytelling as he is. Thankfully, the success of the MCU serves as a strong argument against their nihilistic points of view. Grailknight, Matt the Bruins, Pariah and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted November 20, 2021 Report Share Posted November 20, 2021 17 hours ago, Starlord said: Take his money? Calm down, Satan. ;) Matt the Bruins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 I also have to say that, as a reinterpretation of comic-book lore, the cinematic Ten Rings are the most original, imaginative, and aesthetically beautiful example I've ever seen. Matt the Bruins, Lawnmower Boy and mattingly 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 ...and they make a lovely fashion accessory also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted November 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 Fashion is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: I also have to say that, as a reinterpretation of comic-book lore, the cinematic Ten Rings are the most original, imaginative, and aesthetically beautiful example I've ever seen. I have a theory on the true nature of the Ten Rings. Spoiler I think they came from a Celestial. Like a washer, or a platelet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 5 hours ago, mattingly said: I have a theory on the true nature of the Ten Rings. That the smiths who made them were aided by Sauron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted November 21, 2021 Report Share Posted November 21, 2021 The Mandarin's ten rings in the comics were probably deemed too similar to the Infinity Stones in that each one had a particular power and they were worn on the hand(s). I'm not surprised that Feige simplified them into artifacts that just let the user channel energy in arbitrary ways. This choice also makes them feel like artifacts from wuxia fantasy cinema, which fits parts of the movie's aesthetic. On the whole, I think they did a decent job of throwing Fu Manchu, Mandarin, Shang-Chi, Fin Fang Foom, and the ten rings from the comics into the adaptation blender and producing a tasty martial arts smoothie palatable to the general MCU fanbase. Grailknight, Spence, Matt the Bruins and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 From Rogers, The Musical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted November 25, 2021 Report Share Posted November 25, 2021 We built this city! With my long-bow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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