DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[Christopher R Taylor]

Why did Thanos have to remove half the population of the Universe? Or was it just half of Earth’s Universe? The specific reasons why Thanos had to make half the universe cease to exist was not fully explained. Or was it not?

 

In the comics, it was because he loved Death (no, literally, the female personification of death) and was trying to impress her.  In the movies it was a lame reason, he was concerned about overpopulation and using up resources and figured he'd murder half of everything (the universe) to fix that.  Which would only make a difference for a few decades, but whatever, Thor shoots lighting out of his hammer.  I just liked the Death thing a hell of a lot better.

 

Darkseid has a totally different approach.  He doesn't want to kill everyone, he wants to rule everything and everyone, and shape reality into his vision of totalitarian misery.  I like Darkseid a lot more than Thanos, but Thanos was really good in the trippy Starlin cosmic stuff in the 70s.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[assault]

4 hours ago, 1corpus christopher said:

Keep in mind that Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson founded National Allied Publications in 1934. The Major outranked the other players.

 

Action & Detective Comics are offspring of National Allied.

 

Wheeler-Nicolson was fairly quickly forced out by figures with strong, if not legally provable, organized crime connections.

For at least a decade or two, Batman was published by the Mob! (Which could be the basis for a really cool character...)

What became Marvel was also a shady, marginal business. So were most of the early comics companies. In fairness, like many other small companies, they could only stay in business by keeping the wise guys happy.

The military connections of their founders are probably less important than this.

[unclevlad]

Also remember that the draft was quite firmly in place back then, and many would've been drafted for WW I and WW II.  

 

Almost EVERYTHING in WW II went along with a pro-military, anti-Nazi...heck, you can't call it a slant.  It was a fundamental element.  I don't recall nearly as much about how the war in the Pacific was covered...but hey, after Pearl Harbor, it's largely a foregone conclusion.

 

So, yes, trying to ascribe too much significance to the military connections is a bridge too far.

 

I would generally say:  for much of their history, comics reflect the culture they're in.    

 

 

[assault]

17 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

I would generally say:  for much of their history, comics reflect the culture they're in. 

 

There's no need to qualify this sentence. Comics reflect the culture they're in.

Edited August 1, 2023 by assault

[unclevlad]

4 minutes ago, assault said:

 

There's no need to qualify this sentence. Comics reflect the culture they're in.

 

I don't claim to be a comics historian, so I'm not competent to ditch the qualification.  

[Old Man]

18 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

I don't claim to be a comics historian, so I'm not competent to ditch the qualification.  

 

Well I am competent, and I hereby declare you to be a comics historian.

[Pariah]

39 minutes ago, assault said:

There's no need to qualify this sentence. Comics reflect the culture they're in.

 

That would explain why comics in the 90s / early 00s sucked.

[Bazza]

46 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

I don't claim to be a comics historian, so I'm not competent to ditch the qualification.  

 

wrong answer…do you identify as a comics historian?
 

12 minutes ago, Pariah said:

 

That would explain why comics in the 90s / early 00s sucked.

 

This was the era I mainly read comics. It is the decade we got the Infinity Trilogy which when made into films grossed 4b+ at the box office, so can be said, to not have sucked. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Something can make a lot of money and suck; conversely something can be amazing and make little money.  I hope the DC films from now on are both lucrative and excellent.

[unclevlad]

Lots...and I do mean lots...of pop musicians prove CRT's point.

 

By the 90's/00's, I was giving up altogether on the medium.  Mostly because the artwork was kindergarten grade too often.

[Ternaugh]

37 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Something can make a lot of money and suck; conversely something can be amazing and make little money.  I hope the DC films from now on are both lucrative and excellent.

 

And not based on Flashpoint.

[1corpus christopher]

On 7/29/2023 at 3:30 PM, Scott Ruggels said:

I am not optimistic about Blue Beetle.

 

 

Remember how Steve Rodgers, Bucky and Falcon picked a blue VW Beetle as a "low profile" car to move around in during Civil War?

 

That may have been a Disney/MCU warning to DCU about making a full length Blue Beetle movie.

 

"BB is just too low profile to do that folks. Bad idea."

 

But as a side note to DCU:

 

What i would really like to see done in the DCU is a reboot of Swamp Thing- Alan Moore's Swamp Thing.

 

Have Tim Burton direct/produce this reboot and go all out.

 

Which means of course that Keanu Reeves can reprise his role as John Constantine in the project. 

[slikmar]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:26 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

I just liked the Death thing a hell of a lot better.

And could have worked in the MCU if you substituted Hel for Death, not a stretch. The reason he stopped looking for the Stones was she wasn't around anymore, as Odin had locked her away. Then she reappeared, but before he could get to her, Thor, with Surtur as his weapon, kills her. So now, he wants the stones to sacrifice half the universe as a tribute to her death.

[Lawnmower Boy]

18 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

And not based on Flashpoint.

"Dear Comic book movie producer guys:

 

It has recently come to my attention that you are continuing to not produce movies retelling the Dark Phoenix and Flashpoint stories. Stop that. These are the only comic book storylines which are ever to be produced. 

 

Thank you. Moving on, the following characters are cool: Batman, Deadpool, Harlequin and Venom. Put them in all the movies. 

 

I like female characters, just not any of the female characters you have ever put in a movie or television show. If you put another female character you haven't put in a movie or television show in a movie or television show, I am sure to like them. Probably. Okay, I'll like them if they're Battle Angel Alita. 

 

I like non-White characters, just not asdrno4fgds

 

Ahem. Mom has agreed to give my my keyboard back if I move on. So I will. Whenever I point out super-giant plot holes that contradict established canon from the mid-70s, people imitate Comic Book Guy and laugh at me. Stop it, this is serious! Sergeant Rock and Wildcat and Batman totally teamed up. Killraven is so Kamandi's dad. I did not hallucinate that when I had chicken pox when I was six. Put it in a movie. Either the Flashpoint one or the Dark Phoenix one. I don't care. 

 

Superman can totally beat up the Hulk.

 

/signed, a Concerned Comic Fan." 

[1corpus christopher]

2 hours ago, Lawnmower Boy said:

"Dear Comic book movie producer guys:

 

It has recently come to my attention that you are continuing to not produce movies retelling the Dark Phoenix and Flashpoint stories. Stop that. These are the only comic book storylines which are ever to be produced. 

 

Thank you. Moving on, the following characters are cool: Batman, Deadpool, Harlequin and Venom. Put them in all the movies. 

 

I like female characters, just not any of the female characters you have ever put in a movie or television show. If you put another female character you haven't put in a movie or television show in a movie or television show, I am sure to like them. Probably. Okay, I'll like them if they're Battle Angel Alita. 

 

I like non-White characters, just not asdrno4fgds

 

Ahem. Mom has agreed to give my my keyboard back if I move on. So I will. Whenever I point out super-giant plot holes that contradict established canon from the mid-70s, people imitate Comic Book Guy and laugh at me. Stop it, this is serious! Sergeant Rock and Wildcat and Batman totally teamed up. Killraven is so Kamandi's dad. I did not hallucinate that when I had chicken pox when I was six. Put it in a movie. Either the Flashpoint one or the Dark Phoenix one. I don't care. 

 

Superman can totally beat up the Hulk.

 

/signed, a Concerned Comic Fan." 

...And I will settle for James Gunn as director instead of Tim Burtun- as long as Keanu Reeves gets to play the  Constantine ( Hellblazer ) role in this movie as a lead-up to the Constantine sequel coming next.

 

* takes a breath*

 

And while you are at it have Margot Robbie reprise Harley Q. and work her into the Swamp Thing project too, and I have never seen Captain Atom on the screen that I can remember so maybe you can have his quantum powers start a really interesting cross-over issue with in this universe too...😘

[Christopher R Taylor]

I preferred Matt Ryan in the TV show as Constantine.  He's not only British, but blonde and had the right attitude and feel.

[1corpus christopher]

On 8/5/2016 at 4:33 PM, massey said:

There is something appealing about any successful fictional character.  It doesn't matter whether it's Superman or Freddy Krueger, there is something about the character that readers/audiences/whoever responded to.  If you're going to translate that character into a new medium, you should try and make sure that the thing that makes them appealing is also translated into the new form.  "Being true to the source material" doesn't necessarily mean you have to make a movie that fanboys will love.  I've had enough internet conversations with fanboys to know that most of them have absolutely horrid suggestions for movie scripts.

 

Marvel has done a remarkably good job of putting their characters on the big screen, all things considered.  They know what audiences want to see.  They know what makes their characters popular.  They made half a billion dollars with Ant Man.  Freakin' Ant Man.  Guardians of the Galaxy, who I knew nothing about and I'm a nerd, made 3/4 of a billion.  They have it figured out.

 

DC does not.  They don't know why their characters are popular.  All they know is that Batman sells when they make his movies dark, and Green Lantern flops when they make his movie badly animated and cheesy.  But they're failing at "being true to the source material" in that they aren't reproducing on the big screen, what it is that makes the characters popular.  We're getting a super-powerful depressed hipster with great abs instead of Superman.

 

I've been back-reading...

 

To tell you the difference on the success ratios between the 2 comic companies and their stories coming off better/worse into films of Marvel and DC; in my opinion it was just one main element: 

 

Stan Lee

 

He made all the difference on being the one person alive who truly knew the stories and motivations, and he had all the suggestions to the directors and actors and other pros involved in the MU productions all the way up to Endgame.

 

That's why. That all it took

[1corpus christopher]

25 minutes ago, 1corpus christopher said:

 

I've been back-reading...

 

To tell you the difference on the success ratios between the 2 comic companies and their stories coming off better/worse into films of Marvel and DC; in my opinion it was just one main element: 

 

Stan Lee

 

He made all the difference on being the one person alive who truly knew the stories and motivations, and he had all the suggestions to the directors and actors and other pros involved in the MU productions all the way up to Endgame.

 

That's why. That all it took

And as a side note:

 

Aztar would beat Thanos head-to-head, by himself alone!

 

So there!!😄

[1corpus christopher]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339136928_Mapping_the_relationship_between_the_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_and_its_fans

 

👆And you might try links like this to base your aguements.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, 1corpus christopher said:

And as a side note:

 

Aztar would beat Thanos head-to-head, by himself alone!

 

So there!!😄

 

But could he beat Popeye? Toon-force trumps even the Wrath of God.

[1corpus christopher]

It's about time you weighed in and responded LL!

 

Now I feel I have said enough and got the attention of an authority for sure. I can shut up now folks!

 

...and Aztar could of course be cast within a Swamp Thing movie too

 

( a quality movie, like the way Gal Gadot as WW was shown deflecting bullets in Snyder's Justice League to save the peeps in the bank, that little scene looked like 100% pure dope to me)😉

[Christopher R Taylor]

I don't know if there is causation but Marvel films definitely went astray after Stan Lee died.  I suspect that it is true that Feige went through the first phases because he felt he had to, and is now doing what he always wanted to, and its not great.

[1corpus christopher]

 

 

OK, OK, ok-ok… (hear Joe Pesci as he spoke it in Lethal Weapon 2 in your mind if you will) 

 

What did I sound like to you?
See how that works? It’s the same with these forms of art.

 

When I paged back to the early days of this discussion (I saw someone say something about they knew why they hadn’t been here for a while) i saw a lot of focus on these characters and their stories, and how their new video storybook interpretations were straying far from the “canons” from whence they came. 

 

Let’s face it, those comics were fancy cave drawings on leaves with scratches next to them that signified some thoughts, but our minds did most of the work.

 

Tradition. “That is the mind killer” as Paul Atreides might say. 

 

Fear of change. As those who might fear a world that is unlike what we were taught a few rotations ago on this body we cling to we call Earth.

 

What if I took another canon and said a female character- who was rumored to be a dame of ill repute in the main accepted issues, she had to have some serious demons loosened from her- that woman was actually a holy vessel with her own following. She has her own books.

 

But then no, she was the mother of the Gunslinger and his Kai-tet friends. But no, she was the wife of the Gunslinger…

 

All true stories. Very old (in average human lifespan terms). 

 

We have the “originals” locked away, but for security reasons those issues are keep away and safe. They’re priceless…

 

Don’t answer these questions.
Keep it to yourself….

 

Or argue amongst yourself. Stay in one building to do this with a defined chain of command, or go outside the one building and construct another house, or millions of buildings if you wish to argue which versions are the “true canon”. 

 

What words and actions really took place in these stories? Google it please so we can get a “correct version” answer, please.

 

The words may be kinda vague and open to interpretations but then, noooooo. 

 

“These words are supposed to mean a specific set of things thingy,” one dad did say. Write that down too. Dad said, and mom agrees. Get some more dads to sign off on that too.

 

Tell this to the kids. Then have those kids tell it to the kids of their kids etc.

 

“Tell the supreme intelligence I’m coming to end it. The war, the lies, all of it.”

 

“We need you. You’re new blood.”

 

Who said these quotes and what color, species, gender, party faction and planet are they assigned?

 

 

Is it not getting harder and harder to know the truth?

 

“What is truth?”

 

 

I know I said I would shut up, but I look at the number on my dummy communicator and it is at 189. 

If I make it to 190 I will be at the numerical singularity that I assign as ONE.

 

Love your heroes. Cage your villains.

 

In time we may decide to unlock doors and grant pardons.

 

The Question of that Blue Beetle:

 

Why was Cap and friends cruising in that little German auto? Hmmmmmm?

 

As my Russian friend would often say:

 

“Decide Your Self”
 

[1corpus christopher]

https://scholarcommons.sc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1081&context=senior_theses

 

 👆If you are interested.

 

"Much of the popularity of Marvel Comics stemmed from the company’s focus on the characters rather than only action like other superhero comics at the time. Lee developed characters that the audience could relate to rather than godlike super humans of DC Comics.

 

The other aspect of Marvel that attracted many readers was the real-world setting, specifically the Cold War setting. The characters of Marvel comics dealt with the issues of this unsettled time period just like their readers. Of course, one of the biggest issues of the Cold War was nuclear power. The beginning of Marvel Comics coincided with a particularly turbulent time in US-Soviet relations as both countries raced to build up their nuclear stockpiles. This all came to a head in October of 1962 with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Most historians agree that this thirteen-day period was the closest that the US and the Soviet Union ever came to a nuclear war. It is no surprise that the peak of American nuclear anxiety was also during this unstable period.

 

This analysis focuses on the period from November 1961 to April 1963 in order to determine the extent to which this nuclear anxiety is reflected in Marvel Comics. The nature of nuclear anxiety among Americans during this period was a multi-faceted issue that varied throughout the Cold War…

 

…. The explorers and their fate captured the imaginations of both the young and old throughout the United States over the next weeks, months, and even years. These four Americans were obviously not astronauts but comic book characters, known collectively as The Fantastic Four, created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby (Fantastic Four #1).

 

These four heroes would go on to fight numerous foes from alien invaders to communist dictators, closely followed each month by their enthusiastic readers. The fantastic narrative of humans transformed by cosmic rays into superheroes has engrossed fans for generations. The backdrop of the Space Race provided context to the tale which made the Fantastic Four and their story all the more absorbing.

 

This was only the start for Stan Lee, whose Marvel Comics would go on to produce a whole generation of characters constructed in the context of Cold War America. The beginning of Marvel Comics, in November of 1961, coincided with a particularly unsettled period in United States history.

 

Only a few weeks prior to the release of the first issue of the Fantastic Four, the Soviet Union detonated Tsar Bomba, the most powerful nuclear device ever recorded in history."

 

 

 

 

 

 

And 

[Christopher R Taylor]

DC did move in that direction some as well.  In addition to their vastly powerful characters, they had a lot of lesser ones who were more "street level" but they never felt authentic.  DC didn't have writers who were as connected to the world around them as Marvel did, so a lot of their attempts to write real world people fell pretty flat.  Even the much-lauded Green Arrow/Green Lantern crossover which was beloved of critics but not so much fans didn't feel real, it just was interesting for the unusual events.