DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[unclevlad]

And a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

I'll grant that the MCU is...let us say, underwhelming right now, tho.  I take the low road here, tho...and blame Disney interference.

[Hugh Neilson]

9 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

And a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

I'll grant that the MCU is...let us say, underwhelming right now, tho.  I take the low road here, tho...and blame Disney interference.

 

Quite a few years back, Mark Waid commented in an interview that his ability to revitalize The Flash at DC Comics was successful only because it was a poor seller. He could experiment because DC didn't have much to lose. At the time of the interview, he had moved on, and the character (and his book) was a big seller.  The company would never allow any radical change to a successful book.

 

When the MCU started out, expectations for Supers films weren't that high.  When Star Wars was first released, expectations for science fiction weren't that high.  In both cases, like Mark Waid's Flash, the creators had pretty free rein.  Once the franchise is successful, the willingness to take risks drops markedly.

[Old Man]

38 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

And a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

I'll grant that the MCU is...let us say, underwhelming right now, tho.  I take the low road here, tho...and blame Disney interference.

 

Still not sure what's underwhelming about the MCU.  Since the pandemic, the only MCU film that didn't at least triple its production budget was Quantumania.  That includes Love & Thunder (triple), Wakanda Forever (more than triple), MoM (quintuple), and No Way Home ($2B, 10x).  Audience ratings only slipped for Love & Thunder and Quantumania.  The only way this can be "underwhelming" is if we're comparing to IW and Endgame, which seems a little unfair.

 

But I agree that it would be nice for Blue Beetle to at least turn a profit.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think one great performance out of like the last 10 is not proof of things going well for anybody, be it Marvel or DC.

[Ternaugh]

GotG3. 837M on 250M budget

Quantumania 463M on 200M budget

Wakanda Forever 853M on 250M budget

Love and Thunder 760M on 250M budget

Multiverse of Madness 952M on 200M budget

No Way Home 1910M on 200M budget

Externals 401M on 200M budget

Shang-Chi 432M on 150M budget

Black Widow 379M on 200M budget

Far From Home 1132M on 160M budget

 

Seems good to me.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Probably not exactly honest to include Sony products in the MCU report

 

 

 

 

[Ternaugh]

Take them out and replace them with these, then:

 

Endgame 2794M on a 400M budget

Captain Marvel 1129M on a 175M budget

[Old Man]

40 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

GotG3. 837M on 250M budget

Quantumania 463M on 200M budget

Wakanda Forever 853M on 250M budget

Love and Thunder 760M on 250M budget

Multiverse of Madness 952M on 200M budget

No Way Home 1910M on 200M budget

Externals 401M on 200M budget

Shang-Chi 432M on 150M budget

Black Widow 379M on 200M budget

Far From Home 1132M on 160M budget

 

Seems good to me.

 

Ikr?  I wish I could fail that well.

[Bazza]

To point out the obvious, quantity & quality are different. But yes, this shows quantitative success. However the argument about the MCU being underwhelming may refer to quality. 
 

The originator of the comment may like to chime in and clarify. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Bazza

[Christopher R Taylor]

The thing is I wasn't referring to earnings.  The Star Wars sequels all earned huge money but are roundly condemned and even hated by fans.  The Snyderverse Superman movies made a billion dollars but again are despised.  Both franchises took serious damage in the eyes of fans and people are extremely skeptical of them both now.

 

Almost none of the TV shows were even in the top 10 Nielsen ratings, and most probably lost money, although its extremely hard to get data on streaming (again, I think this is a violation of FAA regs and investor laws).  But almost all of them really annoyed fans, and are driving people away from Marvel products.

 

And the tangent has not been good.  You look at a graph of Marvel Studios earning per film and it looks like a bell curve: starts out kinda low, gets really huge around End Game, then tapers off.  Black Widow absolutely lost money.  Eternals and Quantumania probably lost money, their earnings are so low and the production budget reports are... sketchy, lets say.  Particularly Quantumania had so many reshoots and delays it almost certainly was much more costly than they admit to (same with Marvels, but I hope it is a better movie).

Edited July 28, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[unclevlad]

A lot of it is, as CRT noted, critical reception.  I'm not as adamant on things like the cost of reshoot, but...if Black Widow cost $200M to produce, then it likely basically broke even.  You have to take out the theaters' cut and the promo costs.

[Ternaugh]

FAA? What does the Federal Aviation Administration have to do with streaming services?

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

A lot of it is, as CRT noted, critical reception.  I'm not as adamant on things like the cost of reshoot, but...if Black Widow cost $200M to produce, then it likely basically broke even.  You have to take out the theaters' cut and the promo costs.

 

BW was released on streaming and famously generated lawsuits about lack of revenue for that reason.  That's why I originally specified post-pandemic MCU films.  Which, aside from Quantumania and Love & Thunder, still score well with critics.  Angela Bassett was favored to win Best Supporting Actress ffs. 

 

I get that some people have negative opinions of recent MCU films, which is fine, it's just that those opinions should not be mistaken for objective reality.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 Angela Bassett was favored to win Best Supporting Actress

 

In a movie that reviewers agree wasn't very good.  I mean they gave it a high rating but the reviews were very tepid, leading any objective observer to conclude they didn't really like Wakanda Forever very much, but felt like they had to pump up their review score.

 

Quote

 

I get that some people have negative opinions of recent MCU films, which is fine, it's just that those opinions should not be mistaken for objective reality.

 

 

Most people do, based on the audience scores and word of mouth.  And the complaints aren't "superhero movies suck!" its "damn it I used to love these movies, what happened???"  Its pretty easy to see the difference between the earlier Marvel films and what we get now.  This isn't some political issue, its just that they're badly made.  They're done by committee and everyone has to get their beak wet by being part of the film, the storytelling is weak and the characterizations are almost random.

 

Dr Strange went from a brilliant man who mastered magic in a flash and solved problems with incredible skill to a dimwitted buffoon who was not even the star of his own sequel.  Thor went from an awesome figure of power and majesty to a dork that is constantly wrong and the butt of all the jokes.  Nobody wants to see that!  Marvel has stumbled really badly and its not hard to fix, its just a question if they will back off their egos and focus better on what got them where they are now.

 

I am not confident that will happen.  But DC has a real chance to show they can do it right and the same audiences supposedly "burnt out" on superheroes will flock back to see good ones.  I am not particularly confident that DC can do it, either.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[dmjalund]

I think most (if not all)the Marvel movies since Endgame were good (the exception was Love & Thunder, mainly due to the directors foibles) i do think Marvel TV series are a lot more hit-and-miss

[slikmar]

I think it goes back to my opinion on certain studios - Pixar maybe being the most obvious. Saw Elements this week, not my favorite Pixar movie, but their "bad" movies seem to be in better then 75% for entertainment value than anything else out there. I feel Marvel is in that category, where I enjoy their movies more then 60% of the other stuff that comes out.

[Pattern Ghost]

17 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

But almost all of them really annoyed fans, and are driving people away from Marvel products.

 

 

I liked most of them, TBH. Those I liked least had some good bits. Their biggest sin is a lot of them taking so long to ramp up over such short seasons.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

16 hours ago, Old Man said:

I get that some people have negative opinions of recent MCU films, which is fine, it's just that those opinions should not be mistaken for objective reality.

 

I've been waiting over half a century to hear any opinion of any movie that's primarily based on objective reality.

[Scott Ruggels]

I am not optimistic about Blue Beetle.

[Ternaugh]

6 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

I am not optimistic about Blue Beetle.

 

For me, the glass is half-full of emptiness.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Ternaugh said:

 

For me, the glass is half-full of emptiness.

 

Still better than half-full of bitterness.

 

Unless you're English, of course, in which case the only thing better than half full of bitter is full of bitter.....

[Hermit]

9 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Still better than half-full of bitterness.

 

Unless you're English, of course, in which case the only thing better than half full of bitter is full of bitter.....

They come in Pints?

[unclevlad]

19 minutes ago, Hermit said:

They come in Pints?

 

Are you calling Ternaugh pint sized?

[Ternaugh]

21 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Are you calling Ternaugh pint sized?

 

It would be novel for me if he was. I'm usually put in the back row for group photos.

[1corpus christopher]

 

 

As I look over this topic and the points made recently in this discussion, I feel like this is almost a “political discussion” issue.

 

Also, the individuals who have posted here are competent thinkers if I may say so.

 

 

That being said I will put some goblets on the table for all to wine taste or at least sniff:

 

The “founding fathers” of DC, Disney and Marvel were all US Army service men before they started their careers as media moguls. Jack Warner was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal by France in 1918.

Walter Disney released Snow White in 1937. Bambi was 1942.

 

Action Comics had Superman appear in 1938.

 

Batman followed in 1939 within DC, respectively.

 

Superman got his first successful broadcast on the radio starting in 1940, running to 1951. Batman likewise enjoyed his first radio days starting in 1942, running to 1951. Then we had Televisions coming into our homes during the early 1950’s, and Superman had first dibs. Batman got up next in the 60’s.

 

Keep in mind that Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson founded National Allied Publications in 1934. The Major outranked the other players.

 

Action & Detective Comics are offspring of National Allied.

 

Isn’t it sad that Stan Lee died only a few months before the release of Avengers Endgame?

 

But yes, the multibillion-$ bell curve of the MCU up to that point. And then COVID-19 the year after Endgame was released (the shutdown was actually in 2020 as we all know).

 

It’s like Endgame was a bomb going off dropped by Disney. Or maybe Endgame was a way to warn the population about the coming of a “Crisis on Infinite Earth”.

 

Why did Thanos have to remove half the population of the Universe? Or was it just half of Earth’s Universe? The specific reasons why Thanos had to make half the universe cease to exist was not fully explained. Or was it not?

 

These matters in mind, do we really need to see essentially the same story rehashed by Darkseid and the DCU?

 

 

Many things terrestrial and human are assigned 100-year cycles. All these companies, heroes and stories- mythos- are quickly approaching a century.

 

 

Perhaps the lifespan of these media propaganda workhorses are reaching their last curtain calls.