Coronavirus

[Lord Liaden]

Thalidomide does sound like what Ninja-Bear is referring to. That tragedy prompted the more rigorous testing and evaluation of medications followed in most countries today. The FDA actually blocked thalidomide from initially being introduced in the United States over concern for birth defects.

 

In the case of these vaccines, consider how quickly the small risk of blood clots from the AstraZeneca vaccine was caught and evaluated. After a year of intensive global use and followup, I don't think any medications have ever been more thoroughly tested.

[unclevlad]

7 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Realistically speaking not all side effects immediately revealed either. Ever hear about a medicine in the ‘60’s that was prescribed to pregnant moms for heartburn only to find out that they had a really high case of disabled children? I’ll have to look up the name of the medicine.

 

That was thalidomide, as has been noted...and one of the problems is, it was actually sold over the counter...and in part, for morning sickness. Wikipedia says this:

 

Quote

Thalidomide was first marketed in 1957 in West Germany, where it was available over the counter. When first released, thalidomide was promoted for anxiety, trouble sleeping, "tension", and morning sickness.

 

Which to me, very strongly suggests it was likely heavily targeted for women, for "womens' troubles".  Its effects on embryos were severe;  just saying "disabled" is too mild.  Thalidomide-impacted embryos were also stillborn about 40% of the time.  I remember, tho, that it was really the pictures of the horribly twisted survivors that likely evoked the strongest emotions.  As in...remember those *color* photos from driver's ed classes?  I apologize for bringing that back....

 

It was the big trigger for expanded drug testing.  Over the counter?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

 

Those side effects are NOT something you want from an OTC drug.

[Old Man]

Emergence and spread of a sub-lineage of SARS-CoV-2 Alpha variant B.1.1.7 in Europe, and with further evolution of spike mutation accumulations shared with the Beta and Gamma variants

 

Quote

Antibody neutralization assay of virus variant isolations has revealed that the variant with extra spike mutations is 3.2-fold less sensitive to vaccine-elicited antibodies as compared to other B.1.1.7 variants tested, indicating potential for immune evasion, but it also exhibited reduced replication fitness.

 

[assault]

15 hours ago, Bazza said:

And so far the reported related deaths for Moderna’s vaccine is 1, & for Pfizer’s vaccine is 220. 

 

Interesting. There have only been 1841 deaths from COVID-19 nationally in Australia, according to the Federal Department of Health, so the number of vaccine related deaths here is apparently a significant fraction of those from COVID.

But of course there's a lot of qualifiers on the vaxx related death numbers, while the COVID numbers are pretty firm.

[Old Man]

30 minutes ago, assault said:

 

Interesting. There have only been 1841 deaths from COVID-19 nationally in Australia, according to the Federal Department of Health, so the number of vaccine related deaths here is apparently a significant fraction of those from COVID.

But of course there's a lot of qualifiers on the vaxx related death numbers, while the COVID numbers are pretty firm.

 

Australia hasn't even hit 200k cases yet after successfully holding off covid until three months ago.

 

Conversely it is pushing 20m vaccinated (about 75%).  That's a difference of two orders of magnitude.

[csyphrett]

How many deaths have been attributed to the vaccines worldwide? My coworker is scared because her cousin had to go on a ventilator. She is saying thousands of people have died. She must be talking worldwide, right?

CES 

[Old Man]

48 minutes ago, csyphrett said:

How many deaths have been attributed to the vaccines worldwide? My coworker is scared because her cousin had to go on a ventilator. She is saying thousands of people have died. She must be talking worldwide, right?

CES 

 

In the US, VAERS has received 9549 reports of fatalities that occurred soon after receiving a covid vaccine. This would constitute a fatality rate of 0.0022% if every single one of them were actually caused by the vaccine, which is not bloody likely as no causal relationship has been found or even proposed (except for J&J vaccine-induced thrombosis, which has caused five fatalities total in the US).

 

Conversely, the CFR for actual covid still stands at 1.22% in the US.  Your coworker is 554 times more likely to die from covid than from the vaccine. At least.

 

 

 

 

[unclevlad]

As Old Man said.

 

Yes, there's been thousands of deaths that *may have been* vaccination-related.  But this is lying by selective truth, which has been a standard Fox News tactic.  "The vaccine doesn't keep you from getting it...so what's the point???"

I thought of that earlier, so came up with a thought experiment.

 

Take a population that lives in the same relatively small area...say, 20,000 people.  10,000 are vaccinated.  10,000 are not.  The groups intermingle and go about their daily lives.

 

3 months later, a review of the numbers shows something like this:

vaccinated group:  50 test positive, 1 requires hospitalization but doesn't need a ventilator, and recovers.

unvaccinated group:  500 test positive.  40 require hospitalization;  20 need to go into the ICU.  6 die.

Economic impact:  

vaccinated:  call it 300 workdays lost.  10 days' worth of hospital expenses.

unvaccinated:  about 5,000 workdays lost from the asymptomatic group.  200 hospital days for the non-ICU;  maybe 400 for the ICU.  If you're in the ICU from Covid, your stay's tended to be quite long.

 

Fox et al focus on the 50 positive tests as an absolute number, showing there's no point...when a comparison makes the point blatantly obvious.

 

Note:  the numbers are made up, not from any source.  I think they are generally representative, tho...and the death rate is as listed.  The tough part would be figuring how many cases in 3 months.  I used 5%.

[Cygnia]

Politician to miss his anti-vaccine mandate rally because he has COVID

[Lord Liaden]

Odds of dying in an automobile accident in America during a lifetime: 1 in 107 according to the National Safety Council.

 

Humans usually have a flawed threat-assessment mechanism. We tend to believe things we've done in the past without harm are inherently safe. OTOH we worry excessively over things that are unusual and surprising, even if they're very rare.

 

Years ago there was a horrible incident on a Greyhound inter-city bus run that had never happened before nor happened since. A psychotic person off his meds attacked another passenger with a knife, killed him, and partially cannibalized him. After this a friend of mine declared she would never ride on a bus again. She felt much safer talking on her cell 'phone while driving her car.

 

 

[unclevlad]

"Well, see?  Odds of dying from Covid are 1 in 600, even if you believe the inflated death statistics...we all know they're paid to mark it as a Covid death.  But you're 6 times more likely to die in a car crash!!! So why rip apart everything for such a minor problem????"

 

The slight distinction between 18 months and "lifetime" is meaningless, right?

[dmjalund]

vaccines also require a fully functional immune system. If you are immune-compromised, a vaccine is unlikely to help.

[Lord Liaden]

And those people will always be at risk, so we should take the very simple steps to help keep them safe.

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

"Well, see?  Odds of dying from Covid are 1 in 600,

 

That's a funny way to write 1 in 82, unless I'm misinterpreting something...

[unclevlad]

Just now, Old Man said:

 

That's a funny way to write 1 in 82, unless I'm misinterpreting something...

 

1 in 82 is the fatality rate among those who get Covid, not the total population.  I was also somehow stuck on 5's...as in 500K deaths.  Probably because the world death total broke 5 mill recently.  It's 780K for the US.  With 330M population, that's basically 1 in 430.

 

50 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

vaccines also require a fully functional immune system. If you are immune-compromised, a vaccine is unlikely to help.

 

"Yeah, that's the other thing!!!  HEALTHY people don't die from Covid, only old and already-sick people do!"  

[Old Man]

4 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

1 in 82 is the fatality rate among those who get Covid, not the total population.  I was also somehow stuck on 5's...as in 500K deaths.  Probably because the world death total broke 5 mill recently.  It's 780K for the US.  With 330M population, that's basically 1 in 430.

 

Thanks, I was afraid my math was off.  I hate it when my math is off.

 

4 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

 

"Yeah, that's the other thing!!!  HEALTHY people don't die from Covid, only old and already-sick people do!"  

 

Ah, but someone with covid is by definition not healthy...

[unclevlad]

12 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Ah, but someone with covid is by definition not healthy...

 

The anti-vax ranter again responds...
"But I am, so I don't have to worry about it!"

Remember that rationality is scant here...

[unclevlad]

Lead para from NYT story:

 

Quote

A federal judge ruled on Wednesday that Gov. Greg Abbott’s ban on mask mandates in Texas schools violates the rights of students with disabilities, clearing the path for districts in the state to issue their own rules for face coverings, a decision that could affect more than 5 million students.

 

 

 

YEESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cygnia]

[Starlord]

On 11/6/2021 at 3:51 PM, Pariah said:

So I started fighting off my annual November head cold a couple of days ago. Lady P was concerned, so we all went and got tested this morning. She and the kids came back negative. I came back positive.

 

It's the weirdest thing. I haven't had any of the so-called typical covid symptoms. My smell and taste are just fine, I haven't had a fever, etc. It has just felt like a bad cold. But the test came back positive all the same.

 

I did receive the vaccine in January and February. That's the soonest it was available in my area, and because I'm a public school teacher over 50 I was on the high priority list. I assume, or maybe I'm just hoping, that's why my symptoms have been comparatively mild.

 

So I'm in quarantine for the next 10 days, and unfortunately my family is too. I hate that my wife and my kids are all missing school next week because of me. I confess, I'm not thrilled with the idea of missing a week of school myself, but I'll figure it out. I swear, being a teacher is the only profession where it's harder to stay home than to actually go into work.

 

Wish us luck, everybody!

 

I assume you got through it Ok?

 

I caught Covid about 5 weeks ago (still unclear where I could have gotten it) and proceeded to pass it to the wife and daughter.  Been vaxxed with Moderna since March and ended up with just a really bad cold...unfortunately I still have no sense of taste or smell.

[death tribble]

Iran through 6 million cases and Vietnam through 1 million cases, Russia through 250,000 dead and Peru through 200,000 dead

[Cygnia]

Florida to close half its monoclonal antibody sites

[Cancer]

Aaaah, corruption.  Yes, it has a distinct odor, does it not?

[Pariah]

So I'm in day 8 of quarantine right now. I'm feeling better than I was a few days ago. I registered a fever exactly one time and have maintained my senses of taste and smell throughout. If anything, I'm noticing odors more now than I usually do.

 

I have been effectively confined to my bedroom and the upstairs bathroom. The rest of the family has been using the rest of the house. It sucks not seeing Lady P and the kids very much, but I should be able to start interacting with them again after Monday. I'll probably wear a mask in the house, which is no big deal, because I do it all day at work anyway.

 

On the plus side, I have been able to watch every Marvel cinematic Universe movie that I hadn't seen yet. The only one I haven't seen at this point now is Chang Chi (and Eternals, of course).

[Cygnia]