Christopher R Taylor Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 Quote Which was basically Rogue's initial story arc in the comics. That was one of Claremont's better inspirations. It made her a far more interesting character from just a generic bad guy with a very nasty, interesting power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 18 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I mean, the Wasp in Earths Mightiest Heroes was very capable and independent and interesting but didn't have to be a nad crushing scold in the process. Not quite a fair comparison. The Earth's Mightiest Heroes Wasp was Janet. The MCU Wasp is Hope. All of the MCU's female superheroes are basically avatars of Fourth Wave Feminism, while Janet gets to be a retired superhero without any socio-political baggage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 Quote All of the MCU's female superheroes are basically avatars of Fourth Wave Feminism, while Janet gets to be a retired superhero without any socio-political baggage. Well and they did a weird gender flip thing with the dynamic. In the comics, Hank is a self-occupied jerk who literally beats Jan. In the movies, The Wasp beats Ant Man and treats him like trash while being surly and self-obsessed. The problem is that character is not likable or one anyone cares about. Hank was an unlikable douchebag. Hope is an unlikable harpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 21, 2021 Report Share Posted March 21, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 2:58 PM, Christopher R Taylor said: the writing was just not great in Captain Marvel so she was never challenged and a whole serious of ridiculous crap happened 23 hours ago, slikmar said: I think they were really trying to make her movie almost a female top gun, On 3/20/2021 at 10:40 AM, Grailknight said: Captain Marvel is very true to her comic book portrayal. Carol Danvers has always been portrayed as a strong woman and a feminist ideal without actually being an outspoken feminist herself. The one time she wasn't( the Immortus plotline), she was being mind controlled. She's a female Hal Jordan with the arrogance and hard case attitude that her Air Force piloting and security background layered onto her tomboy personality. She's not very feminine or approachable in the comics either. (emphasis in the quote is mine) That is the problem. The source material Carol Danvers portrayal was that of a competent professional very confident highly trained warrior. Which was translated by Hollywood into an arrogant hard case. She was mind controlled but the film never actually established her as a person that could be contrasted with her under mind control. There really wasn't any difference between the character before and after mind control. Just who she wanted to whack. It is the standard problem with most of Hollywood in the last 10, 15 years. They have literally no understanding of the warfighter and always fall back on Follywood tropes and translate everything through their glasses. Like Arrogance and Hard Case. Starlord, Christopher R Taylor, Pattern Ghost and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I can't help but contrast movie Captain Marvel with movie Wonder Woman. The former follows the trope of having a woman show how strong she is the same way that men are expected to show strength: be hard, suppress your emotions, because emotions are "weakness." Wonder Woman sacrifices none of what are commonly thought of as the "feminine" qualities of compassion and love. Rather than make her weak, they give her strength. Jhamin, Grailknight, pinecone and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: I can't help but contrast movie Captain Marvel with movie Wonder Woman. The former follows the trope of having a woman show how strong she is the same way that men are expected to show strength: be hard, suppress your emotions, because emotions are "weakness." Wonder Woman sacrifices none of what are commonly thought of as the "feminine" qualities of compassion and love. Rather than make her weak, they give her strength. Absolutely, WW1 was a great movie. WW2, not so much. For me, WW1 was a great interpretation using a solid understanding of the character as well as the source material storylines. They knew that a 100% transition to film wasn't possible, they were diligent in bringing the core character across plus making sure that the original material storyline concept and feel was also preserved. In contrast, WW2 was all "woot! look at me (the director) and what I did with WW1 now I can make my personal agenda a movie! Yay. Oh, and I guess we will have to tack on a super story and some visuals. But as long as I get my agenda in it doesn't matter! Wooo Hooo look at me!!!". The only reason WW2 didn't completely suck was the caliber of the cast. It you watch Gadot's post release interviews from WW1 and WW2 you can tell that the excitement and personal satisfaction in WW1 is not present when discussing WW2. Instead you only get the professional facade. Armory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 23 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said: I think a great idea for Captain Marvel 2 would be to introduce Rogue and use that as an excuse to power Danvers down. I like the Rogue intro, but hate the idea of powering Captain Marvel down. The comics have her as this powerful and there are plenty of threats she could face that would challenge her. She could even fight small teams as a solo heroine(which would be a new thing for the MCU). Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I don't mind extremely powerful heroes, but I do mind when they aren't given any real challenge or character arc. People use Mary Sue to describe Captain Marvel a lot for good reason. And I don't think after WW2 being pretty much universally panned the director will be given as much free rein again. Apparently her vision of a superhero movie is dull, pointless, and not heroic, with a ridiculous daffy ending tacked on. Armory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 33 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I don't mind extremely powerful heroes, but I do mind when they aren't given any real challenge or character arc. People use Mary Sue to describe Captain Marvel a lot for good reason. And I don't think after WW2 being pretty much universally panned the director will be given as much free rein again. Apparently her vision of a superhero movie is dull, pointless, and not heroic, with a ridiculous daffy ending tacked on. For the first, it is hard to make good story about the ridiculously powerful. Superman is a perfect example with many examples of both doing it completely wrong and doing it right. Too bad we are deep in the "completely wrong" end of the pool right now. Sad because Cavill does a great job with the character IMO. Even if the scripts sucked so much that the moons orbit distorts as it passes..... Gadot is now the image I get when I think of WW, like Hugh Jackman is who I see when Wolverine is mentioned. With some boundaries set, Jenkins could probably do a great WW3. Gadot has proven she can play the part regardless of the director, only suffering if the movie itself and script are substandard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I'm hearing a lot of good about her performance as WW in Snyder's JL cut. More than just the token female in the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Greywind said: I'm hearing a lot of good about her performance as WW in Snyder's JL cut. More than just the token female in the group. I watched JL when it released (haven't seen the Snyder cut) and the issue was not the actors IMO. They all played the parts they were given even if some of them stood out more than others. Such as Wonder Woman. Gadot nailed the character in a fashion I have not seen since Downey became Ironman. While Gadot may or may not reprise the role, she is Wonder Woman on the screen. Now the lack of quality and very poor storylines and well as overall just bad movie making that is plaguing most of the DC movie properties is another story. Perhaps they should hire people that actually like superheroes to direct and write? Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 48 minutes ago, Spence said: (haven't seen the Snyder cut) I kinda wish people would stop calling it "the Snyder cut." "Cut" implies that something was left out. Call it the Snyder version, maybe, or just "every damned thing caught on flim," but "cut" is not the word to use. At all. Christopher R Taylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 How about calling it Zack Snyder's Justice League? Or ZSJL for short. And saw it over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said: I kinda wish people would stop calling it "the Snyder cut." "Cut" implies that something was left out. Call it the Snyder version, maybe, or just "every damned thing caught on flim," but "cut" is not the word to use. At all. Note to self....use the word "cut" with wild abandon, especially when talking about movies..... Duke Bushido 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I'm quite enjoying the current Superman and Lois TV series. Tyler Hoechlin has always had the character of Clark Kent down, but the writers of this series are finally treating his Superman with the respect due the Man of Steel. The superheroics are depicted in high quality for television, but there's more emphasis on intrigue and family drama, the kind of challenges Superman can't solve with brute force. And unlike the other CW super shows, it's only the teenagers in the cast who behave like teenagers. The adults have real adult issues, which they approach with more maturity (for the most part). aylwin13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: I'm quite enjoying the current Superman and Lois TV series. I've only seen episode #1 but have the rest on my DVR. It looked good so far and I am glad that it sounds like it they are sticking to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Spence said: I watched JL when it released (haven't seen the Snyder cut) and the issue was not the actors IMO. They all played the parts they were given even if some of them stood out more than others. Such as Wonder Woman. Gadot nailed the character in a fashion I have not seen since Downey became Ironman. While Gadot may or may not reprise the role, she is Wonder Woman on the screen. Now the lack of quality and very poor storylines and well as overall just bad movie making that is plaguing most of the DC movie properties is another story. Perhaps they should hire people that actually like superheroes to direct and write? Writer: Snyder Director: Snyder But supposedly Snyder is a comic book fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I think he loves stuff like Watchmen and 300 but not you know, superhero comics I really liked the Lois & Clark show when it was on, even if it went cheap on the superhero stuff. slikmar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Spence said: Superman is a perfect example with many examples of both doing it completely wrong and doing it right. Too bad we are deep in the "completely wrong" end of the pool right now. Sad because Cavill does a great job with the character IMO. Even if the scripts sucked so much that the moons orbit distorts as it passes..... This. Cavill is probably the perfectest casting of Superman ever. He's a gamer and a SF/fantasy geek who surely had a thorough understanding of the character before even getting into acting. That he was saddled with these unbelievably awful scripts and directing is one of the greatest tragedies of Hollywood in this century. Spence, Pattern Ghost and slikmar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Greywind said: Writer: Snyder Director: Snyder But supposedly Snyder is a comic book fan. I think 1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I think he loves stuff like Watchmen and 300 but not you know, superhero comics Pretty much answers that. not all comics/graphic novels are about Superheroes. I think he likes "people with powers" but really has no idea about Superheroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Duke Bushido said: "Cut" implies that something was left out. You also have to cut physical film to add bits. It's just short for "edit," I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 Well, it looks like Snyder 'cut' out all of Whedon's shots so it probably still applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted March 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 Plus, it is a directors cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 I actually liked Brandon Routh in Superman Returns, even though the film was pretty bad. He looked and acted right for the character. Cavill looks like he'd rather kill you than save you as Superman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 34 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I actually liked Brandon Routh in Superman Returns, even though the film was pretty bad. He looked and acted right for the character. Cavill looks like he'd rather kill you than save you as Superman. Routh made a great Superman, but didn't do so well as Clark Kent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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