Cygnia Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Anonymous security forcing citizens into cars is mark of dictatorship Ternaugh, Matt the Bruins, Tom Cowan and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 I abhor violence, but...if someone came up to you in plainclothes (including military surplus camouflage...which many people wear as a fashion statement), did not announce who they are (or who they work for) and attempted to assault/restrain you, couldn't you make a case that self-defense was obviously warranted at that point? Twilight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 You could. People have shot police serving no knock warrants on the wrong house and walked without being charged, for just those reasons. On the other hand, you're not likely to be able to put up much useful resistance in the moment, so a lawsuit after the fact might be the more prudent course of action. (Assuming the intent isn't to permanently disappear you, of course. Or even semi-permanently.) csyphrett and ScottishFox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said: On the other hand, you're not likely to be able to put up much useful resistance in the moment, so a lawsuit after the fact might be the more prudent course of action. (Assuming the intent isn't to permanently disappear you, of course. Or even semi-permanently.) I agree: live to fight another day and all that. However, if you don't know the person you're dealing with and they're attempting to kidnap you (from all outward signs, it is a kidnapping), how can you risk your life on their intentions? I've read that it is far better to fight back, because your chances of surviving sharply drop once you decide to go with your abductor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Sticky situation, yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 IMO it's just a matter of time until one of those "security agents" is shot and killed by one of their targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said: IMO it's just a matter of time until one of those "security agents" is shot and killed by one of their targets. And then all **** breaks loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Is there even a consensus on who they are though. The article wasn't really any help, other than denials of involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Geheime Staatspolizei and Sicherheitsdienst V-E Day was 75 years ago, and in a galaxy far, far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Hermit said: https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-heck-are-federal-law-enforcement-officers-doing-portland They just attacked one of the city commissioners who wants command of the police. I have a feeling if she gets that somebody's head is going to roll. Wolfe better watch out if that starts happening CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Could you please clarify what you mean by, "attacked?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 This seems to be local and relevant, but I haven't read it through yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Portland appointed a new police chief within days of the demonstrations beginning. Apparently he has been unable to restrain his force -- not surprising given the almost extortionate power of the police union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said: Could you please clarify what you mean by, "attacked?" Jo Ann Hardesty and some of her staff were at a demonstration when DHS and the local police started tear gassing them. She is pissed. The letter to the mayor that Cancer posted is like give me the police if you can't do anything about it. If she does get command of the police, they should be afraid of any kind of audit from her office CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 3 hours ago, csyphrett said: Jo Ann Hardesty and some of her staff were at a demonstration when DHS and the local police started tear gassing them. She is pissed. The letter to the mayor that Cancer posted is like give me the police if you can't do anything about it. If she does get command of the police, they should be afraid of any kind of audit from her office CES It doesn't help that mayor Ted Wheeler is running for re-election and has to face a runoff in November. Before all this started to go south, he was an almost prohibitive favorite for a second term. Portland hasn't had a multi-term major since Vera Katz from 1993 through 2004. We've burned through four mayors since. Somehow I don't expect Wheeler to get my vote for a second term... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 It appears the Portland thugs are CBP, acting on a loosely worded executive order, according to this leaked memo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 Somewhere we've seen this before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted July 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 Lord Liaden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 There have been reports on Twitter that someone set the Portland Police Building on fire. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Ragitsu said: The followup to this video gives you concrete, researchable references which are actually very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 ‘They just started whaling on me’: Veteran speaks out after video of federal officers beating him at Portland protests goes viral pinecone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 As a Portlander, I find this all very difficult to comprehend. Some parts are easy -- we all knew that at some point there would be a federal overreaction that justifies itself by taking the situation and making it worse. And we all know that this administration has a particularly black-and-white (if you will pardon the simile) view of the demonstrators. So sadly little of this is surprising. But it is terrifying to be reminded how little responsibility is used here, as opposed to (dubious) authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 Doesn't surprise me at all. The Trump administration has been getting away with literally anything they want for years. Is it any surprise that they think they're untouchable now? We've allowed it and they're going to take full advantage of that. Ragitsu and TrickstaPriest 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclevlad Posted July 20, 2020 Report Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said: Doesn't surprise me at all. The Trump administration has been getting away with literally anything they want for years. Is it any surprise that they think they're untouchable now? We've allowed it and they're going to take full advantage of that. It's not just that. How much of the broad police abuse can be traced back to an "I don't care what you do, I want to be secure" mentality? The cops' bad actors are doing that somewhere else...so "not my problem." Some of this is also likely responsible for the US incarceration rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickstaPriest Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 This is probably old news by now, but found this again:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/portland-protests-trump-veteran-christopher-david-federal-officers-oregon-a9627466.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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