Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[massey]

Snyder is a pretty good action director, and as someone said above, I think he's got a strong sense of visuals.  There are some really strong scenes in all his movies that I've seen, where I sit back and think "whoa, that looks cooool..."  But to me, his pacing and editing leave a lot to be desired.  Man of Steel was hard to follow at times in the action scenes, where there was so much going on that I couldn't follow all of it.  Sometimes there is so much CGI that I think I'm watching someone play a video game instead of watching a film.  Sadly, most action movies today suffer from this, but Snyder's movies have it bad.

 

There are two big problems I have with Batman vs Superman.  One, Man of Steel didn't set the right tone for a superhero universe, for me anyway.  The Marvel movies were more lighthearted and bright, more "superhero-ey".  Man of Steel was fairly dark and bleak, and did not feel like a world where superheroes had been in existence previously.  It didn't feel like a shared universe.  Two, they're trying to introduce too many characters too fast.  Batman is important enough that he should get his own movie.  If you've got to have that movie be one where he fights Superman, so be it.  But it should be all about Batman and how he deals with Supes.  That's enough story for one movie.  But Wonder Woman, the Flash, Doomsday, Aquaman, the movie is too busy.  There's way too much going on.  I don't know anything about this world's version of those characters.  They haven't been introduced yet and I don't care about them yet.  Cramming them in takes away from Batman.

[Starlord]

I liked Sucker Punch, but if people have to write lengthy articles to try and explain it, then it failed at being coherent or deep. 

 

Good point...I generally find this to be true.  It should be noted, though, that if a movie is marketed based on this or that (in this case, brilliant visuals) then only certain audiences will attend.  In other words, many of the people who would enjoy a movie never give it a chance.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Rule One of good filmmaking: get the story right. It is all about good storytelling, always. Action scenes are a means to an end and nothing more. Good directors know this. Weak directors don't get it. Snyder isn't so much an action scene guru as he is a strong visualist, like del Toro. But I feel del Toro has a better sense of story than Snyder. Snyder's movies are lovely to look at, but often falter when it comes to the one thing that really matters: story. I remain unconvinced that Snyder is DC's best hope of competing with Marvel.

Oh, I agree with you completely here.

 

Snyder is very strong visually. He can convey action and drama in a visual way very, very well. As can Del Toro. As you say though, Snyder's ability t convey story is not as refined. Del Toro is much better in this respect.

 

However, if you pair Snyder with a good story and a good script, magic happens. Case in point, Dawn of the Dead remake (brilliant for a directorial debut). He was paired with James Gunn, the helmsman of Guardians of the Galaxy. 300 where he was adapting a Frank Miller comic.

 

What happened with Sucker Punch? He wrote that himself. What happened with Man of Steel? David S Goyer happened. The slayer of comic movie franchises. The man who has no love and gives no f***s for the sanctity of a franchise. Fortunately his BvS script was rewritten, so hopefully the end result will be much improved.

 

In any case, anything Snyder does is a visual feast. I enjoy all of his movies on this level. Paired with a good writer, I think its possible for him to helm the JL movies to great success. But they need to get far, far away from Goyer to pull it off.

[zslane]

I think massey is pulling on a thread that will ultimately unravel the lie that is DC's so-called shared universe film franchise "plan". Warners is trying to have the equivalent of an MCU without earning it in terms of character development and world-building. They want their Avengers now, and they don't want to patiently build their cinematic universe movie by movie the way Marvel did. They want to leap past all that inconvenient development and give us the Justice League immediately. This impatience, I think, will be their undoing.

 

BvS will probably do bonkers box office numbers just because of the concept. But after audiences sees how muddled and disjointed the story is, with so many other superheroes jammed in just to bypass the process of giving each one their own movie, anticipation for a JLA movie will turn to skepticism. WB/DC will yet again be stigmatized as the company that couldn't do what Marvel could, and they'll probably never understand that it is mostly because they wouldn't do what Marvel was willing to do (and did).

[slikmar]

I actually wonder if really all we will see, other then WW, is cameos of Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg (maybe even just Vic Stone). Maybe 5 minutes, no introduction really and no origin story. Just cameos to set them up as their own movies.

Personally, I think they should have just set them up as linked to their tv series, ie same world. I think, for people who are non comic fans, having 2 flash's will be confusing. Not something you see in Marvel. When Sif showed up, it was the same Sif we knew from the movies.

[zslane]

I believe the plan is to use BvS to "introduce" all the JLA characters in preparation for the upcoming JLA movie, not in preparation for individual films for each character given a cameo.

[Greywind]

Wonder Woman is already in production.

[slikmar]

I thought they were doing an Aquaman movie also. That just leaves Flash (whose origin is probably the same as the show) and Cyborg.

[Lord Mhoram]

Flash is getting a  movie, but it's years off.

[Pattern Ghost]

Here's the upcoming movie lineup for DC:

 

2016: Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

2017: Wonder Woman then Justice League part 1

2018: The Flash, then Aquaman

2019: Shazam!, then Justice League part 2

2020: Cyborg, then Green Lantern Corps

 

I'm guessing the JL isn't really a two part movie, but a movie and a sequel, just copying the name from the list I found.

 

So, zslane's right, the only one getting a movie ahead of JL is Wonder Woman.

 

From what I recall reading a while back, the plan is to have BvS;DoJ include Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman (the Big 3) as major characters and briefly introduce Aquaman and the Flash, then a WW movie and then the Justice League movie. So rather than doing the amount of build up Marvel did, they're rushing to the team movie. Early on, it wasn't clear if they were even doing the WW movie before JL, but it seems like that's the current plan.

[Old Man]

From what I recall reading a while back, the plan is to have BvS;DoJ include Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman (the Big 3) as major characters and briefly introduce Aquaman and the Flash, then a WW movie and then the Justice League movie. So rather than doing the amount of build up Marvel did, they're rushing to the team movie. Early on, it wasn't clear if they were even doing the WW movie before JL, but it seems like that's the current plan.

That's not necessarily doomed to fail. GotG is a team movie that did reasonably well with no lead-in films.

 

Of course, GotG also featured a decently written and executed character-driven plot, which I haven't seen from DC for a while.

[Pattern Ghost]

I didn't mention Doom. He's Marvel.

[zslane]

It's interesting how I don't think of GotG as a "team" movie. I think of it as an ensemble piece, which is not the same thing. None of the GotG characters are on par with the main Avengers characters such they would each merit their own movie. I know that different characters have been part of the Guardians line-up throughout its history, but it just doesn't feel like the kind of "team" that merits individual lead-in films. As such, I don't think anyone felt an important degree of build-up was missing prior to GotG.

[Hermit]

[Starlord]

Not sure why Lex seems to regard the meeting of Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne as some kind of momentous event (Clark would have to have established himself as a famous and quite formidable reporter to be anywhere near the level of Bruce Wayne).  Particularly since it would appear he's never even met Clark himself yet when he makes the statement.

[Hermit]

I'm guessing Clark is hitting Pulitzer nomination terrain

It doesn't bother me that much, as they've played similar greetings up before in other medium.

[wcw43921]

So there were two commercials for Turkish Airlines in the marathon Super Bowl pre-game show on CBS right now, where the airline announced two new locations--

 

Gotham City and Metropolis.

 

Bruce Wayne made an appearance for the Gotham City commercial, inviting tourists to come visit.  I didn't think he ever did anything so public--then again, it's not like he has anything to hide.

 

The ad for Metropolis has their magnificent statue of Superman on display.  There's also an appearance by Lex Luthor--he seems like a nice enough guy, but he really should do something about that hair.

 

I'm sure they'll be on Youtube or some other video site before long.  Check them out for yourselves.

[Greywind]

[Hermit]

Diana Prince speaks? Woot!

I know it's a small thing, but I have been waiting for awhile.

 

I liked this trailer. Alfred appears suitably snarky

[Starlord]

Well...fight scenes look good.

[zslane]

Snyder gets to start with characters that are already known and beloved. He doesn't have to waste any time explaining to audiences who these characters are. The characters appear well cast (though I think the jury is still out on Eisenberg's Luthor). And we know Snyder is very good at the visuals.

 

So, if the story is good and he respects the core concepts of the characters, this movie could be a major success. Problem is, Snyder doesn't have the most consistent track record with story, and his treatment of Supes in the last film left a lot of us cold. These trailers could be glimpses of greatness that is to come, or just another case of a talented trailer editor fooling us all yet again.

[Old Man]

Snyder didn't write this one, so we'll see.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I'm hoping Deadpool makes a kajillion dollars so they figure out you can make superhero movies fun.  I about slit my wrists watching the latest trailer.

[megaplayboy]

I saw the Turkish Airlines "ads" featuring Gotham and Metropolis, then read an article that says the two cities are a mere ten miles apart, separated by a long bridge across a bay. That explains the rivalry, like Raiders/49ers.

[Iuz the Evil]

This movie looks exciting. But lacks the "fun" I would hope to see. Grimdark is not my preferred DC, but seems to be the new direction (at least the last couple years).

 

Bummer, I'm a DC guy but am not all that excited to see this. Maybe wait for video.