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Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)


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1 hour ago, Old Man said:

I had left off the /s so as not to out anyone. Not that she has anything to worry about from anyone who usually posts here, but she’s literally in danger now. 


That's very thoughtful of you, thank you. But Dr. Device has been very open in posting about her situation and concerns, even recently, so I didn't even think about risks to her here. I always admired her openness, but maybe you're right that we should be more cautious. :(

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More 'n more lately I give thanks to all the powers that be that I live half a continent from the nutballs in Texas and Florida. They honestly and truly scare the crap out of me, because we have an overabundance of morons up here that would like to emulate them.

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I appreciate the concern y'all, but don't worry about me, for now. 


I'm not hiding and never will. 


In any case, living in Austin, I figure I'm pretty safe until they start actively rounding us up. The odds of that happening before January 2025 are not that high. But if the republicans win in 2024, I'll probably flee to a blue state. I have my kids to think of.

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This is why stacking the Supreme Court was the goal of conservatives for so long.


Minnesota's action makes a clash with Florida certain, if Florida passes their bill (SB 254).  SCOTUS doesn't just offer the check against federal power...it constrains the states, too.  It's not hard to connect that the SCOTUS shift, and the signal sent by overturning Roe, has been a factor encouraging many of the bills we've noted recently.

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Hate crimes in U.S. rose to highest level in 2021, FBI says


States and local jurisdictions reported 10,840 bias-motivated crimes, up nearly 25 percent from 2020 and significantly more than the previous high of 9,730 tallied in 2001.


The data showed increases in crimes targeting all major categories, including racial minorities, religious groups, and the gay and lesbian community. There were 746 attacks targeting people of Asian descent in 2021, up from 249 a year earlier and the most ever recorded in a single year.


“This is a horrifying record that is greater than what we saw in 2001,” said Brian Levin, the director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University at San Bernardino who tracks hate-crime data.


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2 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

This happened today:


FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces New Actions to Reduce Gun Violence and Make Our Communities Safer


I'm sick, and it's late, so I'm going to reserve comment for now and let everyone else digest these for a bit. I'll post some of my own comments later.

It’s still too soon to see anything from ATF, so all I’ve got to work with is the release linked above and what I’ve seen in the news (well, and some YouTube click-bait I haven’t watched).


Most of this seems focused on enforcing existing laws and writing reports demonstrating how federal agencies are enforcing existing laws. 

The call to investigate marketing by the firearms industry is nothing new, but does put the weight of the presidency behind it. I’m still trying to figure out how the industry is marketing to minors. The closest I can come is video games and movies - but I haven’t heard too many criticisms of the entertainment industry on the subject outside of a Bill Maher segment recently. 

I’m not the biggest consumer of typical advertising driven mass media, so anyone who can point to examples of firearm industry marketing to minors can help me broaden my horizons. 

Marketing to the tacticool crowd is definitely a thing, though….


Increased federal support following mass shootings. I’m curious what definition they’re using. FBI “active shooter” criteria or the standard currently being used by the media. If the latter, the price tag will probably require congressional action in all likelihood. 

Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.  Issue is still mostly in the realm of Hollywood/sci fi, but there is something to be said for addressing potential issues beforehand. 

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30 minutes ago, BNakagawa said:



Frankly, I don't think that territorial disputes include things like assassination attempts or making an armored and airborne assaults on your neighbor's capitol city, but what do I know?


Don't forget the mass abduction of thousands of small children, the deliberate efforts to suppress or destroy Ukrainian language and culture, and the officially sanctioned rape campaigns.

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1 hour ago, Old Man said:


Don't forget the mass abduction of thousands of small children, the deliberate efforts to suppress or destroy Ukrainian language and culture, and the officially sanctioned rape campaigns.

I think many of those allegations about deSantis may end up being true, but for now, we'll have to stick to what he's said and done on the record.

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10 hours ago, Tom said:

The call to investigate marketing by the firearms industry is nothing new, but does put the weight of the presidency behind it. I’m still trying to figure out how the industry is marketing to minors.



Well, there are these: Real guns made to look like toys.


How dangerous is that? A real pistol that looks like Lego toy faces outrage.


And this: M1911 EVA Soft Foam Ejection Toy Blaster, Shooting with Foam Darts, Blasters for Kids, Shooting Games, Backyard Fun and Outdoor Games, Preschool Toys for Adults Boys Girls Ages 8 9 10 11 12+



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2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

The first two are real guns marketed to adults who are either still children at heart or just childish - I’ll leave that to your discretion as it would be a matter of opinion.  I wouldn’t consider it as marketing firearms to  children, however.  (I’d classify the “Block 19” as an ill conceived stunt to “own the libs” as opposed to any sort of marketing ploy, personally, though I may be judging the people responsible too harshly due to the media coverage it received)


The third link is likely closer to the mark, though should that be considered marketing by the firearms industry or toy makers producing what sells?  Toy guns have been a part of the US cultural landscape for probably longer than any of us has been alive. 

I also doubt the manufacture and marketing of toys is what the politicians have in mind in relation to the call to investigate the firearms industry’s marketing practices.  It’s certainly not what they’re pointing to/waving in the air when they accuse the firearms industry of marketing to children at a press event. A gun like the JR-15 (brought up in an earlier exchange) is a real firearm chambered  in .22LR, not a piece of plastic which looks like a gun and shoots foam darts. 

It also circles back to my point that firearms are a glamorized, and normalized, part of life in the US - particularly in the entertainment industry (which is where I’d categorize toy makers).   It should certainly be part of a broader conversation, but, while I can’t see the firearms industry being upset by it, it isn’t something I’d lay at the firearms industry’s feet either. 

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9 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Okay, how about this?






Or this?





Can you say where you found the JR15 ad?  Was it in media targeted at adults or children?


I won't disagree the firearm is marketed for children, but I will question whether the firearm is being marketed to children.  Since "marketing to children" is how Biden's executive order is formulated, I consider that to be a fair question.


The YouTube video is a different can of worms.  The first point is it is not firearms industry marketing, at least not at any surface level.  It's someone who made a YouTube channel about guns that is using his daughter as the presenter. 


The follow-up questions require more digging than I'm up to attempting:


1) What are the channel's demographics?

2) How much financial support is the channel receiving from the firearms industry?  I expect at least some level of support, based on other channels I've seen (ie: loaning guns to be reviewed).


(I've seen the channel before, but I can't manage to watch more than the first couple of minutes.  A little too hokey for me, which may or may not be a sign that it's aimed at a younger demographic.)


I'm inclined to think of the channel as a form of firearms marketing, I'm just not sure that it is actually directed towards children - though I can see it appealing to people who would likely want to share it with their children.


8 hours ago, DShomshak said:

... But not surprised.


Dean Shomshak


Yeah, me neither.  There are YouTube channels on just about everything imaginable...


More to the point, I work at a shooting range.  I routinely see parents introducing their kids to firearms or out for a fun time together.


I taught my kids how to shoot.  Both because I hoped they'd share in my hobby and because I felt they needed to know how to handle firearms safely since I own several.


I also taught my kids how to play TTRPGs.


If it makes you feel any better, my kids don't own guns (and they are of legal age to do so these days), but they still have lots of dice and play TTRPGs (not Hero though, darn it).

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