Hero Games 2021 Update

[zslane]

27 minutes ago, Spence said:

Yes they did some good things, publishing wise but they are hardly a powerhouse.

 

Well then your memory of the '90s is very different from mine. The fact that one could fill an entire bookshelf with World of Darkness books is testament to the profound success White Wolf enjoyed. Hero Games should be so lucky as to have even a tiny fraction of that success today. Moreover, I will go on record as observing that the WoD setting had as much to do with the whole brand's success as the game's presentation and overall playing ethos did (annoying player base notwithstanding).

[Steve Long]

On 2/14/2021 at 3:28 PM, Norm said:

• Steve's Mythic Hero line.  Yes, I went there....

 

Have no fear, I'm still working on it, slowly but surely. I'm currently doing a lot of research for it and a nonfiction work-in-progress called The Encyclopedia Of Mages, Magic, And The Arcane (or "EMMA," as I like to call it ).

[Steve Long]

On 2/4/2021 at 2:54 PM, Lord Liaden said:

(BTW I noticed a few details about the Caribbean in Cops, Crews, And Cabals and DEMON: Servants Of Darkness that might embellish Cost Azúl. Please pass on to Steve that I'd be happy to reference them when he gets around to writing that, as well as anything else I mention elsewhere. )

 

I have a suggestion for a future sectional book, which I would tentatively title Villains Beyond, kind of a sequel to Champions Beyond. That book names and briefly describes twenty-eight alien supervillains, sixteen enemies of the Star*Guard either free or in their prison, and twelve villains based in the Andromeda Galaxy. Details about Andromeda, and the Star*Prison, could flesh out the book even more.

 

Finally, it would be nice to see a book dealing with and updating ARGENT, like the book being done for the IHA. If it would help, I compiled and categorized all the published info I could find on ARGENT to the thread linked in my signature, and converted it to a PDF that's in the free Downloads section of the website. It's actually considerable.

 

Thank you and Steve again for all your efforts.

 

 

Thanks as usual for the excellent suggestions, LL!

 

I'd be happy to look at whatever data you've compiled that you think would be helpful for Costa Azul (which is the PDF I'm currently working on, assuming the ice storm raging outside my windows doesn't knock out my power like it did last weekend). Please send it to me by direct message, if you can -- or contact me for other options.

 

ARGENT is a subject that we've long wanted to explore in more detail (along with the IHA). Originally the idea was that Allen would write the book, which I was really looking forward to (not only because Allen was really creative and a skilled writer, but because his strongly pro-union, anti-corporations status would lead to a very different product than one written by anti-union, pro-corporations me -- and the final product, once edited by me, would have turned out pretty sweet IMO). Unfortunately that wasn't something we could get to before we had to cut back on staff. It might make a good subject for a sectional book, but I'm not sure; I'll have to ponder that.

 

On 2/4/2021 at 5:44 PM, Ninja-Bear said:

Martial Enemies? Here take my money! 😀 could Steve Long though maybe have an adventure written for use with Martial Enemies please? Not a seed but a short adventure would be extra sweet.

 

I have actually been thinking that we might change the title to The Martial World (thus making it consistent with The Mystic World, though it would cause abbreviation confusion  ). That way I could present information about subjects other than just martial arts-based villains (though they would, of course, make up the majority of the book). I could cover some martial arts heroes (like Nightwind and Shugoshin), revamp the Tournament of the Dragon, provide a section of "Super Martial Arts" powers in a CP-style format, and so on. When the time comes, I'll post a "What Do You Want To See?" thread that will let Herodom Assembled fling ideas at me like so many inspirational shuriken.

[Steve Long]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:31 PM, zslane said:

Oh, I'd also love to see the 6e Vehicles book get revived and completed.

 

That's something I'd very much like to do as well -- Vehicles is, I believe, the last remaining subject to be covered in what I think of as "The HERO System Core Library" (which is, basically speaking, all the books with blue and gold covers that discuss "fundamental" subjects such as Magic, Martial Arts, and Equipment). I'm not sure if it would be a good subject to write as a sectional book -- I'd need to do a lot of research to update existing vehicle write-ups and find new vehicles to cover (just last week I read a fascinating article on cool military vehicles currently in use or in development that I'd want to draw on for new vehicles, for instance), and it doesn't really break apart into small sections I can cover on a weekly basis (since I'm only budgeted for so much time per week at present). OTOH, a lot of it would just be updating the existing text to 6E rules, which would be much easier work. So I'll give that some thought.

 

On 2/8/2021 at 11:05 PM, greysword said:

3) If you want to see an IP that truly needs a a solid system that is dynamic yet relatively simple to adjudicate AND has a solid following, look no further than Shadowrun!  The Hero system would be excellent for this game, and the lore would make it an easy port.  You should contact Topps and/or Catalyst Game Labs to see if you can form a partnership.  A Hero core with CDL lore means you can both share in the tsunami of money that will rain from the sky!  (hyperbolic?  maybe, but you have to admit that Shadowrun gamers like crunchy rules and are begging for a ruleset that makes sense and is east to adjudicate at the table.

 

As a huge longtime fan of Shadowrun, I certainly love this idea, though I suspect that licensing fees would make it a non-starter (and as much as I love the SR setting, I'm kind of reluctant to spend a lot of effort writing up something that I don't own). In any event, though, before we can even consider this I will have to write a new Cyber Hero genre book, something I've wanted to do forever, have lots of ideas for, and am considering as a possibility for a sectional book or Kickstarter project.

[Steve Long]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:54 AM, HeroGM said:

 

I think [Danger International] basically got folded into Dark Champions

 

That is true, but we have considered doing Danger International as a subgenre book for the Dark Champions line that would cover espionage, terrorism, and related subjects. The problem is that it would require an insane amount of research, because if I'm going to write a book about espionage for gaming, it's going to be the book on espionage for gaming. It would cover everything from one caveman keeping a secret from the others, all the way up to the present day; would include bios/descriptions of many famous spies and espionage capers; tons of espionage equipment; "Espionage Super-Skills" like the ones we see in James Bond movies and the like; and of course a section discussing the genre in general, presenting information and campaigning options from the ultra-realistic to the totally absurd but deliciously fun. Especially since I want to keep moving forward on Mythic Hero, a new DI would take at least a year or two of non-stop effort to write -- and even though I do have a couple of potential contributors in mind (one of whom has worked in the US intelligence community for the past three decades), this is a subject that intensely interests me and that I want to write, not assign to other writers.

 

On 2/11/2021 at 12:52 PM, zslane said:

In terms of "unfolding", as dmjalund puts it, I would revamp Dark Champions for 6e and call it Action Hero, and then put out a Danger International campaign book, providing a complete espionage campaign setting.

 

I'd definitely like to revamp DC for 6E (you can find PDFs where I've already updated the Templates and some other stuff in the Hero Online Store), but we're not going to change the name. Back in 1993 I wasn't entirely wild about it, but eventually I realized that it was better than my original title (Heroes Of Vengeance, which became the subtitle), and since it's been in use for 30 years we don't want to lose whatever brand recognition we've built up for it.

[Steve Long]

On 2/11/2021 at 5:16 PM, chall said:

I would have loved to see an updated Lands of Mystery, but unfortunately I know that is not going to happen.

 

As you probably know from posts we made years ago, we had planned to do one and I was really looking forward to writing it -- Aaron was going to do all the setting and NPC stuff, while I would write the genre material, character sheets, and other such stuff. Unfortunately, Aaron's death torpedoed the project. While I'd love to tackle the book myself (maybe even as a sectional book), but the sad fact is that we have lots of data that Pulp Hero supplements simply don't sell well. I love the genre and would love to write more for it, but aside from the occasional small PDF product that I can produce myself in my spare time, it simply isn't economically feasible.

[HeroGM]

2 hours ago, Steve Long said:

 The Encyclopedia Of Mages, Magic, And The Arcane (or "EMMA," as I like to call it ).

 

Even Dead I'm The Hero.

[greysword]

2 hours ago, Steve Long said:

As a huge longtime fan of Shadowrun, I certainly love this idea, though I suspect that licensing fees would make it a non-starter (and as much as I love the SR setting, I'm kind of reluctant to spend a lot of effort writing up something that I don't own). In any event, though, before we can even consider this I will have to write a new Cyber Hero genre book, something I've wanted to do forever, have lots of ideas for, and am considering as a possibility for a sectional book or Kickstarter project.

 

Well, can't hurt to ask Topps or CGL, just to find out what the license fees might be, right?  of course, anything written for a Her Shadowrun could be ported to a generic version if the licensing then falls through.  I can't imagine CGL is paying a ton.

 

That said if you create a Hero cyberpunk genre book, please take quite a bit of time to flesh out the story line and lore!  There are quite a few writers on the Shadowrun books that have some great ideas for the cyberpunk world.  Getting their help on your setting would help immensely, as one of the best parts of the Champions game is the ongoing universe.  Having a fleshed out world to plug into makes it easier for new GMs to simply sit down, craft a basic story within the established framework, take a few NPCs from the Villains books, and get to rolling the dice.

 

Honestly, I only play Champions in the Hero system (but it's our prime game), but if there was a Shadowrun-esque setting ready to go, I think it would be an easy leap (the use of massive amounts of 6-sided dice notwithstanding ).

 

In the immortal words of Palpatine, "Do it!"

 

Thanks Steve!

[Lord Liaden]

We had an extensive, high-quality Shadowrun-to-Hero fan conversion in PDF on the now sadly-defunct Star Hero Fandom website. That would probably make a fine place to start building an official Hero sourcebook. While I can find that website via the marvelous Internet Archive Wayback Machine, that particular PDF appears inextractable.

[Duke Bushido]

17 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

We had an extensive, high-quality Shadowrun-to-Hero fan conversion in PDF on the now sadly-defunct Star Hero Fandom website. That would probably make a fine place to start building an official Hero sourcebook. While I can find that website via the marvelous Internet Archive Wayback Machine, that particular PDF appears inextractable.

 

 

I have the bulk of version 091 of that, actually.

 

Not to sound pessimistic, but after a couple of decades of watching non-commercial websites crumble and die (I've said it numerous times, but I can't ever hope to convey how much I miss the web ring of Heroes), I decided to start snagging a few things from those rare sites that were (at the time) still extant-- not to do anything with, but on the odd chance I found anyone who wanted to make a real effort to finish some of these projects.

[zslane]

6 hours ago, Steve Long said:

I'd definitely like to revamp DC for 6E (you can find PDFs where I've already updated the Templates and some other stuff in the Hero Online Store), but we're not going to change the name. Back in 1993 I wasn't entirely wild about it, but eventually I realized that it was better than my original title (Heroes Of Vengeance, which became the subtitle), and since it's been in use for 30 years we don't want to lose whatever brand recognition we've built up for it.

 

Okay, then maybe I can sell you on the same idea, but just expressed differently. Rather than think of Action Hero as a rewrite/revamp of Dark Champions, consider publishing an entirely new genre book on the same level as Champions, Fantasy Hero, and Star Hero, but called Action Hero. It would cover the territory of action/adventure cinema: war, spy/espionage, counter-terror, martial arts, whatever Fast/Furious is, etc. That would leave Dark Champions 6e to focus more clearly on vigilante justice and "dark superheroes", freeing it from the burden of being an ad hoc catch-all for everything and anything action-oriented in a modern setting.

[Lord Liaden]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:01 PM, Steve Long said:

 

ARGENT is a subject that we've long wanted to explore in more detail (along with the IHA). Originally the idea was that Allen would write the book, which I was really looking forward to (not only because Allen was really creative and a skilled writer, but because his strongly pro-union, anti-corporations status would lead to a very different product than one written by anti-union, pro-corporations me -- and the final product, once edited by me, would have turned out pretty sweet IMO). Unfortunately that wasn't something we could get to before we had to cut back on staff. It might make a good subject for a sectional book, but I'm not sure; I'll have to ponder that.

 

 

Personally I would have loved more Hero products from Allen Thomas. He's a very creative writer with a distinctive approach to the material. I hope he's doing well.

 

If you did consider doing ARGENT as a sectional book (not saying you should), my own summary of published ARGENT data grouped it into related sections: History, Goals and Methods, Structure and Personnel, Front Companies, Global Activities, Associates and Allies, Rivals and Enemies, ARGENT-Created Superhumans, and ARGENT Technology. Perhaps that could be suggestive of a similar breakdown?

[Spence]

On 2/17/2021 at 6:32 PM, zslane said:

 

Well then your memory of the '90s is very different from mine. The fact that one could fill an entire bookshelf with World of Darkness books is testament to the profound success White Wolf enjoyed. Hero Games should be so lucky as to have even a tiny fraction of that success today. Moreover, I will go on record as observing that the WoD setting had as much to do with the whole brand's success as the game's presentation and overall playing ethos did (annoying player base notwithstanding).

 

We are in a different world.  Hero and WW put out about the same number of books over the same years. And many of those were reprints of the same book with a edition update (as were a lot of Hero's). 

 

White Wolf retreated to limbo with eBooks only for about a decade and their comeback was completely reliant on a another company to bring them back into the world of publications.  

 

Hero hasn't returned. 

 

Both WW and Hero were in the upper middle of RPG companies at their best, which isn't the same as saying they were Powerhouses.  But there are many companies that put out far more publications than WW or Hero. 

[zslane]

Well, the publishing data leads to the following observation (on Wikipedia):

 

"Around 1995, new World of Darkness releases were frequently top sellers, making White Wolf the second biggest publisher of tabletop role-playing games at the time after TSR, Inc., and by 2001, Vampire: The Masquerade was the second best selling tabletop role-playing game after TSR, Inc.'s Dungeons & Dragons." (emphasis mine)

 

Now maybe that level of success doesn't mean much in your world, but it certainly does in mine, and I feel that any publisher with dreams of success in the TTRPG domain would do well to study what put them in such a position of marketplace dominance (behind TSR/D&D). Sure, they faltered here and there and they weren't perfect (no publisher is), but for a small team with only one prior notable RPG to their name (Ars Magica) they clearly did something right.

[Lord Liaden]

Agreed. But they probably didn't realize it until after the fact. If ever.

 

EDIT: Kindred: The Embraced was a television series that ran on Fox in 1996, based on the Vampire RPG. It only lasted eight episodes, but that it was made at all certainly implies that the game had substantial popularity and name recognition at the time.

[Duke Bushido]

It would have gone longer, save that one of the actors offed himself in a motorcycle accident.

[Darren Watts]

Hero never came *close* to Vampire in sales. If we were ever "upper middle" it was because there are so many kitchen-table operations. dw

[steriaca]

Ok. Things I would like to see.

 

ARGENT : A write up for a 'typical' ARGENT Salesperson. He is the guy who goes into abandoned buildings to meet with minor drug lords and presents little demonstrations of what they got for sale. And he can handle himself if push comes to shove. Besides, he is extremely armed and dangerous himself.

 

The Martial World : So far, everything which has been mentioned I want. I would also include odd weapons into it also.

 

A 'body control' power would also be good. "This pressure point causes your legs to be useless. This one causes you to lose control of your bladder. This one causes the muscles of your neck to collapse around your wind pipe, suffocating you. Enjoy your last few moments of life. Goodbye."

 

HERO System Psionics : What the HERO System Grimoire does with Magic, this book should do with psionics. Nuff said.

[Ninja-Bear]

Also could Street level Supers get some love? There is scant little of it mentioned in various books/editions. More though of how to blend true Super powers (though not that super) into a Street level game. Here specifically I’m thinking of Luke Cage type guy. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Super Agents at two levels would do this: a UNTIL/Man from Uncle/SHIELD kind of game, and then a low level/street hero game setting and tips.  One of my long-term dream campaigns I never got to run was super cops: police officers with powers.  Just one low power, just something that sets them apart, and dealing with street crime and low end villains

[Ninja-Bear]

@Christopher R Taylori d go with what you suggest too.

[Jhamin]

On 3/1/2021 at 3:00 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

One of my long-term dream campaigns I never got to run was super cops: police officers with powers.  Just one low power, just something that sets them apart, and dealing with street crime and low end villains

 

As a product, this one would need to be handled pretty adroitly in the current political climate.  What street crime is, who is committing it, and how the police (PCs) react all can be tricky in the era of Black Lives matter and "Defund the Police"

I know Paizo ran into some problems when they released an adventure path where the PCs were all police officers.  It didn't help that it dropped  just a few weeks after the Minneapolis riots.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Eh, current trends come and go, gaming is long term.

[Lord Liaden]

True, but problems with American policing are long-term, too. It's just that in recent years how deep they are has become impossible to ignore.

[bluesguy]

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

True, but problems with American policing are long-term, too. It's just that in recent years how deep they are has become impossible to ignore.

Amen to this statement.  Coming from a resident of the Twin Cities and who is also BIPOC.