The Flash

[sinanju]

Yeah, Barry was exceptionally stupid in this episode. But so were the writers.

 

How did Flash and company know Zoom would leap through the wormhole ASAP? How did they know he could detect them? How DOES Zoom obviously know when they appear? The first one didn't open right in front of him--he ran to where it was just beginning to open.

 

What was Barry's endgame? Was he going to kill Zoom (the only way to really stop him for good)? No, of course not. Imprison him? Zoom can vibrate through solid objects better than Barry does. And that assumes Barry can capture him. So, yeah, Barry is finally as fast as Zoom, or maybe even faster. So what? Speed isn't everything--unless your advantage is so overwhelming that the other guy doesn't have a chance (and Barry isn't that much faster). Strength, combat experience and ruthlessness (helloooo, PSYCHOPATH!) matter as much or more. For that matter, Zoom isn't nearly as deadly as he could/should be. One flickering pass and everyone would be dead before they hit the floor (well, everyone except Barry, since dead speedsters apparently have no more speed force in them...though I'm not sure why).

 

And giving up his speed to pacify Zoom? Stupidest thing he's ever done, bar none. Let's make the only person on the planet with a prayer of stopping Zoom give up his powers to make Zoom even faster. Yeah, there's a good idea. NOW what's your plan, Barry? What if Zoom forces Cisco to open another portal back to his earth, then vanishes through it, TAKING CISCO WITH HIM. Good job breaking it, hero. Zoom can continue terrorizing his earth, Barry is left permanently powerless, and Cisco is a hostage or dead. Plus, fast as he is now, Zoom can go bedevil Supergirl and who knows how many other heroes in how many other universes. HE doesn't need Cisco to open portals for him now.

 

Next week looks to be the "Barry tries to be a hero despite his lack of powers" episode, and I probably won't bother with it. The stupid, it burns. Plus, as I said somewhere (here or the AOS or Supergirl threads), I watch this show to see the FLASH fight crime, not Barry Allen, Mere Mortal. Do the writers really think he needs another lesson in how important The Flash is to Central City and/or the world? Apparently so. And, you know, maybe they're right. He threw that away pretty darn quick to appease a psychopath who might well murder all the hostages (and Barry) afterward just because he can.

 

Edited to add:  Oh yeah, what was ZOOM's endgame? How, exactly, did he intend to steal Flash's speed all along, given that it required the (grudging) assistance of Harrison Wells and his magic-tech to do it? How had Zoom planned to do it?

Edited April 23, 2016 by sinanju

[Ternaugh]

Yeah, Barry was exceptionally stupid in this episode. But so were the writers.

 

How did Flash and company know Zoom would leap through the wormhole ASAP? How did they know he could detect them? How DOES Zoom obviously know when they appear? The first one didn't open right in front of him--he ran to where it was just beginning to open.

 

What was Barry's endgame? Was he going to kill Zoom (the only way to really stop him for good)? No, of course not. Imprison him? Zoom can vibrate through solid objects better than Barry does. And that assumes Barry can capture him. So, yeah, Barry is finally as fast as Zoom, or maybe even faster. So what? Speed isn't everything--unless your advantage is so overwhelming that the other guy doesn't have a chance (and Barry isn't that much faster). Strength, combat experience and ruthlessness (helloooo, PSYCHOPATH!) matter as much or more. For that matter, Zoom isn't nearly as deadly as he could/should be. One flickering pass and everyone would be dead before they hit the floor (well, everyone except Barry, since dead speedsters apparently have no more speed force in them...though I'm not sure why).

 

And giving up his speed to pacify Zoom? Stupidest thing he's ever done, bar none. Let's make the only person on the planet with a prayer of stopping Zoom give up his powers to make Zoom even faster. Yeah, there's a good idea. NOW what's your plan, Barry? What if Zoom forces Cisco to open another portal back to his earth, then vanishes through it, TAKING CISCO WITH HIM. Good job breaking it, hero. Zoom can continue terrorizing his earth, Barry is left permanently powerless, and Cisco is a hostage or dead. Plus, fast as he is now, Zoom can go bedevil Supergirl and who knows how many other heroes in how many other universes. HE doesn't need Cisco to open portals for him now.

 

Next week looks to be the "Barry tries to be a hero despite his lack of powers" episode, and I probably won't bother with it. The stupid, it burns. Plus, as I said somewhere (here or the AOS or Supergirl threads), I watch this show to see the FLASH fight crime, not Barry Allen, Mere Mortal. Do the writers really think he needs another lesson in how important The Flash is to Central City and/or the world? Apparently so. And, you know, maybe they're right. He threw that away pretty darn quick to appease a psychopath who might well murder all the hostages (and Barry) afterward just because he can.

 

Edited to add:  Oh yeah, what was ZOOM's endgame? How, exactly, did he intend to steal Flash's speed all along, given that it required the (grudging) assistance of Harrison Wells and his magic-tech to do it? How had Zoom planned to do it?

 

"All will be revealed on the next episode of 'Soap'".

[zslane]

How was Zoom able to get back and forth to/from Earth-2? There is no portal unless Cisco "makes" one. Yet Zoom was able to take Wally to his Earth-2 dungeon, and bring him back, at will. WTF?

 

And yes, the whole Underestimating the Villain trope is getting really tiresome. And predictable. And pointless.

 

I am probably going to take Flash and Arrow off my DVR list at the end of this season. I just know I can find better things to do with two hours a week.

[Hugh Neilson]

I am probably going to take Flash and Arrow off my DVR list at the end of this season. I just know I can find better things to do with two hours a week.

I'm not sure why you have kept watching all of these shows you come here every week to tell us you hate. Maybe you just watch them for the joy of coming here to tell us how badly they suck, in your eyes. But let me let you in on a little secret:

 

As long as you are watching, regardless of why, you contribute to the ratings that sell the advertising that motivate the exec's to keep the show on the air and not change a thing. They are quite happy if you tune in every week to pick the show apart and trash it, as long as you keep tuning in every week.

[zslane]

Well, you know, hope springs eternal, until it doesn't anymore. Eternal just isn't what it used to be.

 

I liked Arrow until last season when it began to disappoint me. I decided to see if this season could bring it back to form, so I gave it another chance. I was on the fence for quite a while, but now I've reached the point where I see little reason to continue. However, I sort of feel that after having seen this much of the current season, I might as well ride it out to the end of the season.

 

The Flash started out fun, but just kept getting dumber and dumber and I'm at the same point with that show now.

 

Next season, these two shows will have one fewer viewer to torture with their atrocious writing. And if advertisers think they are reaching me just because I am "tuning in," they are sadly mistaken (and apparently unaware of how DVRs work).

[Hugh Neilson]

I don't get the advertisers' willingness to keep spending on commercials a large part of the audience fast forward through either, but when they wise up, the mainstream networks will need a new business model, I guess. Seems like streaming services either charge a fee (so does cable, I suppose) or run commercials you can't skip over.

 

I suppose it's something like online ads. Nothing forces me to click on them, but I still see them. Maybe the logo will get my attention, or something in the commercial will cause me to back up and see what it is. Or its a dying model that just hasn't quite breathed its last.

[Ternaugh]

I don't get the advertisers' willingness to keep spending on commercials a large part of the audience fast forward through either, but when they wise up, the mainstream networks will need a new business model, I guess. Seems like streaming services either charge a fee (so does cable, I suppose) or run commercials you can't skip over.

 

I suppose it's something like online ads. Nothing forces me to click on them, but I still see them. Maybe the logo will get my attention, or something in the commercial will cause me to back up and see what it is. Or its a dying model that just hasn't quite breathed its last.

 

I use an ad blocker, originally because I can't stand to have flashing stuff in my face when I'm attempting to read a page*, but now because of the malware risk that they represent. Flash player is similarly set to only play if I let it, and I'm using a plugin to automatically pause video so that I don't get surprises when I open a link. I have whitelisted a few sites who run polite ads (usually static ones), and I've paid for subscriptions on a few sites to avoid ads altogether. As for links that I follow to sites which refuse to show me stuff because I have an ad blocker, well, I guess that I don't really need to read that page, and they don't get any of my views.

 

*There are a few bloggers on the Gawker websites who insist on putting crappy animated GIFs every paragraph or so in their stories. There is a special place in Hell for them (and it probably involves Hulk Hogan).

[Nolgroth]

Autoplaying ads have pretty much caused me to limit my online experience to here, RPG.net, RPTools.net, my email, my bank statement, and Youtube.

[Hermit]

Okay, Rupture's introduction made me smile because it is borrowing elements from the little read Nu52 Vibe comic series which  I enjoyed a lot, and it's nice to see that someone has read it. In fact, cisco's storyline was probably the most engaging part about this. Watching him talk to Dante and things come to light may not have been non stop action, but it really showed off things I liked about the character. Cisco wants his family's respect. He wants to be close to his brother, but in the  end, he realizes there's a bridge, maybe one too far... and it's melancholy. But they may try.

 

Barry's story was brought here by a huge idiot ball, but on its own it is... well, enjoyable. Barry realizes he screwed up, but whether he should risk a big badda boom or not, risking countless others? Hard call. Of course, with Zoom killing willy nilly when he pleases and trying to terrorize the planet into subjugation, Barry finds himself making the hard choice. Is it the RIGHT choice? I guess we'll see. The idiot ball painted the character in this corner. If you can ignore the cause, you can feel sympathy for the dilemma.

 

The results of his final choice were just...well, neat.

Barry presumed Dead, but more likely in the Speed Force or something. And Jesse and Wally may have just had their origins.

 

[Pattern Ghost]

Does anyone else think that

Barry is going to end up being the Man in the Iron Mask?

 

I've been entertaining the idea for a bit, and the disappearance plus the preview of Barry being stuck in an alternate dimension -- presumably the Speed Force -- is pushing me further that way. If it's the Speed Force that he's stuck in, he could be flung out of it to the past of Earth 2, where he gets captured by Zoom.

 

 

[mattingly]

So, Barry's

 

speed goes to Jesse Quick and Wally West, and Barry becomes a Speed Wraith trying to grab onto any passing time-traveler to get back?

 

 

Y'know this would be a really cool time for a

Supergirl return-the-favor crossover

 

[sinanju]

So, Barry's

 

speed goes to Jesse Quick and Wally West, and Barry becomes a Speed Wraith trying to grab onto any passing time-traveler to get back?

 

 

Y'know this would be a really cool time for a

Supergirl return-the-favor crossover

 

 

Yeah, that would be great. But...good luck with that.

[zslane]

The two shows don't even acknowledge the events of that crossover episode, so...

[DasBroot]

The Flash did. When Barry tested out the tachyon thingamabob he disappeared through a portal for a second before reappearing from another a hundred feet ahead and immediately asked how long he was gone.

 

I guess he just uncharacteristically kept his foolish mouth shut for once.

[Nolgroth]

RE: 'Rupture'

 

This whole episode was a setup for Wally and Jessie to get their powers. It also sets the stage for Vibe to juice up his abilities if the trailer for next week's episode is anywhere near accurate. It played an unnecessary (and therefore flat) emotional heroic sacrifice card. I don't mind heroic sacrifice but it should be that rare event so that it actually means something. At least I will tune in next week to see resolution. Can't say that for Legends of Tomorrow tonight (or ever).

[zslane]

The Flash did. When Barry tested out the tachyon thingamabob he disappeared through a portal for a second before reappearing from another a hundred feet ahead and immediately asked how long he was gone.

 

I guess he just uncharacteristically kept his foolish mouth shut for once.

For me, that wasn't enough. Had he mentioned that he had just spent a couple of days on an alternate Earth with aliens and a hero named Supergirl, and oh wow it was so cool and it would be great to go back someday (etc.), then that would be a proper acknowledgment. It was uncharacteristic of Barry to not go all fanboy over the experience upon his return.

[BoloOfEarth]

For me, that wasn't enough. Had he mentioned that he had just spent a couple of days on an alternate Earth with aliens and a hero named Supergirl, and oh wow it was so cool and it would be great to go back someday (etc.), then that would be a proper acknowledgment. It was uncharacteristic of Barry to not go all fanboy over the experience upon his return.

 

Agreed.  His reaction (or lack thereof) left me shaking my head. 

 

I miss fun, positive Barry.  I hope he returns soon.

[sinanju]

I gotta say, I was siding with Wells in this last episode. "What more do you need!?" 

 

Giving up his powers to Zoom was beyond stupid. Playing Hamlet for most of this episode, while Zoom (and his minion) ran around terrorizing and murdering people, was even worse. I fast-forwarded through most of the relationship dreck and heartfelt talks between Barry and Joe and Barry and his dad. I. Just. Didn't. Care. This whole plot was just too dumb for me to get invested.

 

The only character who seemed to have a clue--besides Wells--was Zoom. Ain't no flies on him. He saw lightning flaring over Star Labs and he knew IMMEDIATELY what they were up to and ran off to stop them.

[TheDarkness]

For me, that wasn't enough. Had he mentioned that he had just spent a couple of days on an alternate Earth with aliens and a hero named Supergirl, and oh wow it was so cool and it would be great to go back someday (etc.), then that would be a proper acknowledgment. It was uncharacteristic of Barry to not go all fanboy over the experience upon his return.

Add to that the confusion of the fact that, in the same episode that we assume he went to her world, he later says they have no way to get to other Earths.

 

I'm still enjoying the show, though.

[Greywind]

"They" don't. He does.

[bigdamnhero]

"How did you know about the Harry Potter convention?" You keep being you, Cisco!

 

I've enjoyed the last few episodes, despite the massive idiot ball of Barry giving up his powers. Not my favorite trope, but what'reyagonnado? And while it was obvious to us behind the 4th wall that Barry would eventually go along with Wells-2's crazy scheme, it makes sense that Barry would be reluctant to try something with such a high to innocent lives...until Zoom shows him exactly how high the stakes are.

 

I agree I could use less soap opera angst and more fun, but this is the CW we're talking about.

 

And hey! Two-for-one origin stories! Very efficient!

[Bazza]

And hey! Two-for-one origin stories! Very efficient!

 

Well...The CW has a budget...  

[TheDarkness]

"They" don't. He does.

He includes himself in that assessment. If I recall correctly, he says we.

[rjcurrie]

He includes himself in that assessment. If I recall correctly, he says we.

He could have easily meant a reliable way to get to other words. Sure, he could keep running fast and hope he ends up on Earth 2 before ending up in a universe that either kills him or has no way of him getting back. But is that useful?

[TheDarkness]

He could have easily meant a reliable way to get to other words. Sure, he could keep running fast and hope he ends up on Earth 2 before ending up in a universe that either kills him or has no way of him getting back. But is that useful?

I'm pretty sure he says they have no way at all to get there. Much as I enjoy the show, that episode had some big writing problems.

 

If he thought it wasn't a reliable way, but he had been to other earths by running, he absolutely puts no effort into getting help working out a way to do it. But really, the entire tone of the episode was that he thought he couldn't get there at all. The Supergirl crossover is like a nonexistent blip. We assume that's where he was, but his insistence that without the portals, there's no way to get to Earth-2 are a bit at odds with our knowledge that he was probably just on another Earth.

 

That said, if writing problems could kill the Flash, the comic book would have died years ago.