Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[csyphrett]

Last week The USA TODAY suggested that Trump's 3500 lawsuits compared to Clinton's 900 is a weakness in his governmental skills. Some of the lawsuits are because he refuses to pay for services or his taxes. He basically forces the local governments to put liens on his businesses until they get their money. I think the article said NY has done this over a hundred times.

CES 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I still say the best man for the job is Vermin Supreme.  All politicians are vermin, he notes, and since he's the supreme one, that makes him uniquely qualified.

[Ranxerox]

I have a question for Bernie Sanders supporters which is most people here.  

 

Early in the campaign there was talk about the possibility of Sanders winning the popular vote and Clinton using her tight relationship with the super delegates to "steal" the election from him.  This was something that many Sander's supporters thought Hillary might attempt to do since she was viewed as being corrupt and amoral.. After tomorrow's primaries even if Sanders has a really good day, he is still going to be at least 200 pledged delegates and 2.5 millions votes shy of Clinton's totals.  Despite this, Sanders and his campaign team have been saying that they plan on going to the convention and attempting to get enough super delegates to flip his way in order to overcome his shortage in pledged delegates.

 

How do you people feel about this?

[Starlord]

Clinton dropped out at this date with a similar deficit in 2008

 

Although, it is important to note that she did not drop out until Obama secured the votes.

[lemming]

I have a question for Bernie Sanders supporters which is most people here.  

 

Early in the campaign there was talk about the possibility of Sanders winning the popular vote and Clinton using her tight relationship with the super delegates to "steal" the election from him.  This was something that many Sander's supporters thought Hillary might attempt to do since she was viewed as being corrupt and amoral.. After tomorrow's primaries even if Sanders has a really good day, he is still going to be at least 200 pledged delegates and 2.5 millions votes shy of Clinton's totals.  Despite this, Sanders and his campaign team have been saying that they plan on going to the convention and attempting to get enough super delegates to flip his way in order to overcome his shortage in pledged delegates.

 

How do you people feel about this?

I would have preferred Sanders, however I'll wind up voting for Clinton because I see her terms to be functionally equivalent to Obama.  Everything bad would get rubberstamped by a republican, and some good will happen.

And I don't have my backup plan of having a cross country vehicle capable of fending off hordes of mutants ready yet.

[Old Man]

@ Ranxerox: I respect Sanders' efforts to see things through to the end, but there's no way in hell the super delegates are going to leave the popular vote winner without an incredibly good reason.

[megaplayboy]

In point of fact, I think the Democratic nominee would lose support if the superdelegates appeared to overturn the will of the primary electorate in favor of the "more electable" candidate.

[Ranxerox]

Clinton dropped out at this date with a similar deficit in 2008

 

Although, it is important to note that she did not drop out until Obama secured the votes.

 

Actually in 2008 the popular vote between Obama and Clinton was much closer than that between Sanders and Clinton.  The difference in that contest was on 42 thousand and represented only 0.1% of the total vote. link.  Given the closeness of that election, of course she didn't drop out until the very end.

[Ranxerox]

@ Ranxerox: I respect Sanders' efforts to see things through to the end, but there's no way in hell the super delegates are going to leave the popular vote winner without an incredibly good reason.

 

Of course they aren't, but if Sanders stays in the race and keeps attacking Clinton right up through the convention and leaves the convention nursing sour grapes, that could really hurt her.  I have said that Clinton doesn't need the votes of people who hate her guts in order to beat Trump, and I stand by that statement.  She does, however, need the votes of Sanders supporters who don't hate her but aren't necessarily crazy about her either. More over, she needs to be able to stop worrying about attacks from the left so she can focus the attacks from the right.  This being attacked from both flanks stuff is for the birds.

 

I'm hoping that megaplayboy is right and Sanders will drop by mid-month. I can see how it would help Sanders to play hard to get at this point, and I don't begrudge him attaching strings to his support.  After all, that is probably how Hillary got the Secretary of State job.  Part of me is just worried that listening to 20 thousand young people chant his name has gone to his head, and maybe he isn't seeing things entirely rationally at this point.  So the sooner he cuts his deal with Clinton and the DNC, the sooner I can stop worrying about the prospect of a President Trump.

[Iuz the Evil]

I respect his right to see this through to the end, will cast my California ballot for him tomorrow, and will vote for Hillary in November.

 

Nothing really changed so far in this cycle so far as my vote goes.

[megaplayboy]

First woman nominated for president by a major political party in the United States. Whatever you think of Hillary Clinton, that's a BFD.

 

As I pointed out upthread, 100 years ago, women in this country couldn't even vote.

[Iuz the Evil]

Lots of milestones in this one, with Hillary potentially being the first female POTUS. Bernie first Jewish presidential candidate to win a primary. It's a time of change.

 

Edit: just turned in my ballot. Some interesting local initiatives as well, I voted for increased taxes and bond measures across the board (Bay Area water, earthquake repair of schools, and jail replacement being necessary).

[Pariah]

Good for you for knowing and voting on important local issues. So many people think it's only about the Presidential and Congressional races.

 

 

[Pattern Ghost]

State and local ballot initiatives are the primary reason I vote.

[Pariah]

They're the primary reason I keep my current political affiliation, as well. In my state - arguably the Reddest of the so-called Red States - the GOP has closed primaries. Since most local and national elections here are decided in the Republican primaries, having an 'R' on my voter registration card is about the only way I can have a voice in local issues.

 

My membership in the Republican Party is much more pragmatic than dogmatic. I'm a RINO, and I make no apologies for that fact.

[megaplayboy]

It was weird to me seeing people complain about not being able to vote in Democratic primaries because they were registered independents. Uh, if it's that important to you, change your registration for the primary. You're not bound going into the general election.

[Pattern Ghost]

I was just driving home from the grocery store when the radio interrupted the broadcast with a speech from Bernie Sanders.

 

I thought it must be his concession speech. Nope. After thanking his supporters, then restating his platform, he went on to say that he was going to carry on the fight in DC and Philadelphia next Tuesday. OK, so he must have crushed Clinton in California, why else would they be airing a non-concession speech?

 

I got home, checked the numbers for CA. Clinton took about 60%.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, that Sanders still thinks he has a shot, or that the radio network interrupted their normal broadcast with a speech from the losing candidate of a major primary.

 

The election continues to be weird.

[Badger]

State and local ballot initiatives are the primary reason I vote.

I vote on those when I know what they are for.  Sometimes hard to keep up with, and when I don't understand well I don't want to make the wrong decision

[Badger]

I was just driving home from the grocery store when the radio interrupted the broadcast with a speech from Bernie Sanders.

 

I thought it must be his concession speech. Nope. After thanking his supporters, then restating his platform, he went on to say that he was going to carry on the fight in DC and Philadelphia next Tuesday. OK, so he must have crushed Clinton in California, why else would they be airing a non-concession speech?

 

I got home, checked the numbers for CA. Clinton took about 60%.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, that Sanders still thinks he has a shot, or that the radio network interrupted their normal broadcast with a speech from the losing candidate of a major primary.

 

The election continues to be weird.

 

 

Well, I know my local TV station like interrupting broadcast for severe thunderstorm talk (even though they constantly show the warning scroll on the screen) and make it seem like the end of the world.

 

Good thing, my grandma is no longer around,  she had a bit of an irrational fear of storms (among other things) as it was, they'd have her scared to death.

[Starlord]

I was just driving home from the grocery store when the radio interrupted the broadcast with a speech from Bernie Sanders.

 

I thought it must be his concession speech. Nope. After thanking his supporters, then restating his platform, he went on to say that he was going to carry on the fight in DC and Philadelphia next Tuesday. OK, so he must have crushed Clinton in California, why else would they be airing a non-concession speech?

 

I got home, checked the numbers for CA. Clinton took about 60%.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, that Sanders still thinks he has a shot, or that the radio network interrupted their normal broadcast with a speech from the losing candidate of a major primary.

 

The election continues to be weird.

 

Her email scandal is still a serious issue to some, IMO he will stay as long as possible hoping something will break wide open with that.

[megaplayboy]

The party will court him for a week or two to see what he wants and if he can be mollified, then they will firmly but gently put the hammer down. Everyone from POTUS on down will endorse Clinton and call on Sanders to concede.

[DasBroot]

I would think the only reason to fight on at this point is to keep his name fresh in the mind of the (attention deficient and fickle) youth that he has rallying for him. The longer he keeps 'feel the Bern!' running the more likely they'll be to vote for Clinton by proxy when she announces him to be her running mate.

[CaptnStrawberry]

It seems to me Sanders is pivoting toward a long-term progressive movement, his stated goal all along, that can challenge the status quo.  Having weight at the convention and influencing the platform will help him accomplish this, thus I and many of his supporters believe it is in the long term interests of the country that the struggle continue.

 

I will say 2016 has made me realize how ignorant and uninformed I am about the primary process.  There are open contests, closed contests, semi-closed, caucuses, different requirements in each state, I got hopelessly muddled trying to figure it out.  If all the primaries had been truly open, without the sometimes onerous advance registration requirements, I think the popular vote would've been much closer.  Even LA Mayor Eric Garcetti (Clinton supporter and Superdelegate) was on NPR last night saying the process is confusing and in need of improvement.

[Lord Liaden]

The fact that the process has been so unconventional this election year has probably led to much greater public scrutiny of it than usual. Looking at the process from outside your country, I have to say it leaves my head spinning. And ye gods, it takes so long! Here in Canada our last federal election campaign was the longest in our history... at 78 days.

[Hermit]

Canada Envy strikes hundreds of Americans every year, and goes up to the thousands  during election cycles. Currently, there is no cure for Canada envy though frequent visits to the Yukon during Winter have been known to suppress symptoms as do reminders that Justin Beiber is from there. Project "No Maple Leaf 4 U!" is a non profit charity trying to help Americans come to grips with the fact that while they may envy Canada, they are very unlikely to get to gain citizenship; whether due to age, lack of needed job skills, or inability to list more than three hockey teams. We help any American we can cope with the ugly facts that if they're being screwed by their country, they're probably not rich enough to escape it.

 

Please donate to our cause.