Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, Dr.Device said:

That's what I'm dealing with.

 

I'm just very firmly in the "a lesser evil is still an evil" camp, but I understand where you're coming from. I gave your response a "thank you" emoji, but that's because there isn't (but should be) a virtual hug emoji. I'm on  your side, and I'm sorry for what you're going through right now.

[Lord Liaden]

46 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

I'm just very firmly in the "a lesser evil is still an evil" camp, but I understand where you're coming from. I gave your response a "thank you" emoji, but that's because there isn't (but should be) a virtual hug emoji. I'm on  your side, and I'm sorry for what you're going through right now.

 

That's understandable, and I agree that all evils should be called out. But I also believe that we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

 

3 hours ago, Cygnia said:

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[Pattern Ghost]

10 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

That's understandable, and I agree that all evils should be called out. But I also believe that we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

I've always found that to be sound writing advice, but I'd caution against applying it too broadly. For example, I've never given that advice to a surgeon about to operate on me. 😉

Edited June 13, 2023 by Pattern Ghost

[DShomshak]

Possibly hopeful, in that at least a few members of the "Lower Uppers" are seeing their shared interest with the working class:

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/13/1180389740/tax-rich-raise-wages-patriotic-millionaires-lobby-voters-inequality

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

I've always found that to be sound writing advice, but I'd caution against applying it too broadly. For example, I've never given that advice to a surgeon about to operate on me. 😉

 

Why not?  "Good" in that context is still a high standard.  And, are you willing to foot the surcharge that would be involved to get to something like "perfect?"

 

There is no context, IMO, where "the perfect is the enemy of the good" does not apply, so long as you recognize "good" isn't a fixed level.  

[Pattern Ghost]

lol

 

Let's let this one lie, guys. The "good enough" does not apply to the original circumstance, at least IMO. More to the point, I was attempting to bow out of the discussion with DrDevice gracefully. I'm just trying to avoid getting sucked back in.

 

(Edit: But do feel free to PM me any time. I enjoy chatting with you both.)

Edited June 13, 2023 by Pattern Ghost

[assault]

Personally, if I was in the US, I'd be in there on Dr.Device's side with both hands, and to heck with fake civility (tone policing), "both sides"-ism and pearl clutching in general.

The perfect being the enemy of the good argument is usually used to justify settling for something less than you can get. Whenever you hear it, demand more. Not meaningless "perfection", but more.

And there I go getting excited about things I can't do anything about... Can't resist it sometimes.

Edited June 14, 2023 by assault

[Hermit]

Unfortunately, part of my moderator duty is to do work that some might consider tone policing, so forgive me when I inform the posters here....

 

Well done, gang! You're keeping it pretty civil with each other, you aren't attacking other posters even when you disagree with them, and you express understandable fury against some truly unjust situations without projecting it on other members of the community.

 

Which is more mature than I see in 95% of all internet debates. Thank you. You're being class acts.

 

 

[dmjalund]

if there are bad actors on both sides, concentrate on those that can do the most damage

[Doc Democracy]

6 hours ago, assault said:

The perfect being the enemy of the good argument is usually used to justify settling for something less than you can get.

 

I actually use the phrase with the people in my team, drafting documents, to stop them putting in excessive hours trying to make a briefing document perfect, long after it is good enough to go out.

[Pattern Ghost]

16 hours ago, assault said:

(tone policing)

 

I hope you didn't mistake what I was saying for tone policing. I'm the last person to bother with tone. What I was talking about was pure hate and racism. Just to be clear. It's fine to be angry about an injustice, it's not fine to commit the same injustices yourself.

[death tribble]

US Supreme Court upholds Native American Adoption law by 7-2

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65897827

[Hermit]

That's two the Supreme Court have gotten right recently imo. Makes me think they're trying to do a 'see, we're not biased or corrupt at all' PR drive, but that's probably the cynic in me

[Old Man]

28 minutes ago, Hermit said:

That's two the Supreme Court have gotten right recently imo. Makes me think they're trying to do a 'see, we're not biased or corrupt at all' PR drive, but that's probably the cynic in me

 

Yeah, it feels like they're gearing up to award Trump the presidency or something.

[Iuz the Evil]

Well, it’s a fairly specific decision based on the congressional authority to regulate tribal affairs. So if you get a GOP Congress you could have a problem. They didn’t weigh in on the equal protection issue, related to the ability of tribal children to benefit from adoption.

 

 It’s a good ruling though, we spend a lot of time on ICWA in child welfare. I’d be very unhappy if those protections went away.

 

 They also ruled that tribal lenders are bound by bankruptcy laws, in a separate ruling, so in that way curtailed tribal protections. But I don’t have strong feelings there.

[wcw43921]

The Warden Burger

 

I almost put this in the "Foods For People Who Don't Care Anymore" thread, but given the possibility it could be construed as political, I thought it best to put it here.

[unclevlad]

Another example of Republicans using the tactics of a repressive autocracy....

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/19/business/gop-disinformation-researchers-2024-election.html?unlocked_article_code=A3A_8p2eyV7VvNetdGuZwQjpw9Goc0jQlnITy9imAD9gbrX9danglLMzsRA6MbYI6EX9ztiLhGWi4NF7Ovo-sdBQob8_JnLPSzRvqA7iwADBAq6z9jn6c3dA5z_NV_CyOtY_AgPPCKo1lUrnLCF_v_iiw7uJWhyWMuHEd3_sARKSwNIvvDjwTNwygfi4-ejPeyKVdQgKlSom9O_B-98Rksy57pvpqlSzNUa7BgqC8fvetk7D42-0_MHYHD7TG0YMuZwmMZ5J6U8ZaIhDTTPcNmTHcD6nkKOW5XhYyv48q2r95AXa0SY3pGXUu1-Z9slm4ZDBhhfCTj0huHwe0ITk8_yfXLizcH42iZCTAfTKEgIxL4Z_21p5sw&smid=url-share

[DShomshak]

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/19/1183098037/washington-post-journalist-on-fbis-delayed-investigation-of-trumps-role-in-jan-6

 

WaPo journalist on why the Justice Dept in general, and the FBI in particular, waited 15 months before investigating whether Donald Trump himself, or anyone closely associated with him, played a role in organizing the Jan. 6 insurrection. Department leaders were overwhelmingly anxious not to be seen as "partisan" by investigating, and imagined that by holding back they might "restore public trust" in their apolitical impartiality.

 

Jeez, had none of them been paying attention for the previous several years? Donald Trump had already established the pattern of condemning anyone who did not loudly and frequently proclaim their personal fealty to be part of the "Witch Hunt" against him. And his base had established the pattern of believing him. And the rest of the Republican Party, of backing him up.

 

You're cops, guys. Don't expect the criminals to like you.

 

Dean Shomshak

[unclevlad]

In other news...it may be mostly that soccer's the most played sport on the planet, but stories like this are just becoming almost endemic....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-20/new-zealand-abandons-friendly-with-qatar-after-racism-allegation/102498654

 

Key points:  

Quote

New Zealand abandoned their match with Qatar mid-game after allegations of racism against Michael Boxall
A match between Ireland U21s and Kuwait U22s was called off earlier after similar allegations
The abandonments came days after a match between Mexico and the US was called off due to homphobic chants

 

[Pattern Ghost]

Someone needs to remind Biden that we won that whole Revolution thing:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/16/biden-god-save-the-queen-man-remark/70332100007/

 

I'm not sure if he's suffering from slipping mental faculties or this is just the usual we've seen over the years. Either way, I don't think an American head of state should be signing off any speeches with "God Save the Queen," as lovely a sentiment as that is.

 

Apparently, he said it after certifying Trump in 2017, so he may just mean "God help us all" or something similar.  🤷‍♂️

[Old Man]

19 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Someone needs to remind Biden that we won that whole Revolution thing:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/16/biden-god-save-the-queen-man-remark/70332100007/

 

I'm not sure if he's suffering from slipping mental faculties or this is just the usual we've seen over the years. Either way, I don't think an American head of state should be signing off any speeches with "God Save the Queen," as lovely a sentiment as that is.

 

Apparently, he said it after certifying Trump in 2017, so he may just mean "God help us all" or something similar.  🤷‍♂️

 

Slow news day?

[dmjalund]

well, the Queen IS in the afterlife, God's main territory

[Pattern Ghost]

2 hours ago, Old Man said:

Slow news day?

 

I guess. Better than the usual news.

 

21 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

well, the Queen IS in the afterlife, God's main territory

 

Makes sense. 

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

Someone needs to remind Biden that we won that whole Revolution thing:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/16/biden-god-save-the-queen-man-remark/70332100007/

 

I'm not sure if he's suffering from slipping mental faculties or this is just the usual we've seen over the years. Either way, I don't think an American head of state should be signing off any speeches with "God Save the Queen," as lovely a sentiment as that is.

 

Apparently, he said it after certifying Trump in 2017, so he may just mean "God help us all" or something similar.  🤷‍♂️

 

As a Canadian, I can tell you that while most of us don't use the expression, around the Commonwealth we're aware that "God Save the Queen/King" carries the same connotations for the British and some other Commonwealth members, as "God Bless America" does for Americans. It may be reverent, sarcastic, ominous, etc. depending on the context around it. And with Joe Biden's extensive foreign diplomatic experience, I've no doubt he's aware of that.

 

I'd suggest looking at the context of Biden's whole speech and mentally substituting the other expression, to draw your own conclusion as to what he meant.

[Pattern Ghost]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I'd suggest looking at the context of Biden's whole speech and mentally substituting the other expression, to draw your own conclusion as to what he meant.

 

That way lies madness.